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Numbers of vowels and consonants in Chinese ?


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#1 liketolearn

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 06:20 PM

Do you know how many vowels and consonants there are in each Chinese dialect? Which Chinese dialect has the largest amount of consonant and which Chinese dialect has the largest amount of vowels?

btw vowels here include monophthongs as well as diphthongs and triphthongs, but it doesn't include consonant endings.

For example, in the word "lian", -ian isn't a vowel, but -ia- would be considered as a vowel (a diphthong).

Thanks.

#2 qrasy

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 09:51 PM

You mean vowel combinations. Or in other words rhyme minus the ending consonant.
But there can still be some ambiguity in counting, for example things that are pronounced different but not distinguished.
For example, does p in spin and p in pin in English count as different consonant or not?
Does the semivowels like w and y count into the consideration of rhyme? How about words without a true vowel?

And I wonder if I should consider the 'ie' in lie different from 'ia' in lian.
Another thing: ia in lian/liang sounds different.

And do you count interjections like "ah" and "oh"?

Anyway, even under this situation, I can guess:
Initial consonant: Shanghai > Mandarin > Cantonese > Minnan
Vowel combination: Shanghai > Mandarin > Minnan > Cantonese
Ending consonant: Minnan > Cantonese > Mandarin, Shanghai

Edited by qrasy, 12 February 2009 - 10:07 PM.

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#3 liketolearn

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 11:03 PM

Dear grasy,

I'm talking about vowel phonemes which include monophthongs, diphthongs, and triphthongs.
If two vowels are distinguishable by the native speakers of the language or dialect, they are considered two different phonemes.
However, if they are not distinguishable by the speakers of the population, they are not considered phonemes.

For example, standard Vietnamese (Northern Vietnamese) has 47 vowels

Monophthongs: a ă e i o ơ u ư
Diphthongs: ai ay y ao au u eo ia i iu u oi i ơi ui ưi ua ưa oa oă u oe u u ươ ưu uy
Triphthongs: oai oay uy iu ui ươi ươu uya uy

But Southern Vietnamese dialect has only about 28 vowels phonemes:
Monophthongs: a ă e i o ơ u ư
Diphthongs: ai y ao u eo ia i iu oi ơi ui ưi ua ưa u ươ
Triphthongs: ươi

Vowels like oa, oă, oe, u, oai are only preserved in Southern Vietnamese when they are preceded by kh-
But even so, many people turn "khoan" into "phan", "khỏe" into "phẻ", "khoi" into "phi".
I don't think Southern Vietnamese distinguish "ưi" and "ươi" in daily speaking either.

Edited by liketolearn, 12 February 2009 - 11:10 PM.


#4 xng

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 11:41 PM

Anyway, even under this situation, I can guess:
Initial consonant: Shanghai > Mandarin > Cantonese > Minnan
Vowel combination: Shanghai > Mandarin > Minnan > Cantonese
Ending consonant: Minnan > Cantonese > Mandarin, Shanghai


Ending consonant:

Edited by xng, 17 February 2009 - 12:33 PM.


#5 liketolearn

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Posted 12 February 2009 - 11:44 PM

I thought there was dialect around Fujian that couldn't distinguish n and ng ending. Which one is that?

Some taiwanese can't distinguish n and ng too, right?

#6 qrasy

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 02:17 AM

For example, standard Vietnamese (Northern Vietnamese) has 47 vowels

A problem with this is that, ưa sounds ươ-, u- sounds ua, uya and uy- sounds the same, ia and i sounds the same too. And there's no minimal pair between them in any word (unlike a/ă which are still distinguishable when you put something after them).

Also there can be 2 different sounds: ua in qua and mua/cua is different.
Indeed we should consider the q separately, as the ua in qua is pronounced like in oa and many other examples. This is because of the orthography.

Another consideration is whether "w" should be considered part of the initial or the rhyme.
For example, uơ can be found in "thuở", but if the thu is considered "thw" then it's just another rhyme of ơ.
Btw, I found that uơ is not listed, but it should as you also listed uy.

Vowels like oa, oă, oe, u, oai are only preserved in Southern Vietnamese when they are preceded by kh-
But even so, many people turn "khoan" into "phan", "khỏe" into "phẻ", "khoi" into "phi".

We see some similar effects in Cantonese.
e.g. -w- can only be found after k kh or when nothing is before it.
Ancient kh (high) is likely to change to f before w (e.g. 快課科闊 faai3 fo3 fo1 fut3).

Ending consonant: Minnan = Cantonese (k,t,p,m,n,ng).

In Minnan there is an extra glottal stop [-ʔ]. And that is different from -k [-k]. This is often an ignorable difference to Malaysian/Indonesian peoples, but I can distinguish them.
For -k the root of your tongue touches the top of the cavity (i.e. velum), but for a glottal stop it doesn't. You use your throat alone to pronounce glottal stop.
The distinction is much clearer in the initial position:
In many languages, vowel words that doesn't have anything preceding it has a glottal stop before it, i.e. English "I" is [Ɂaɪ].
(Very few languages distinguish whether vowel has a glottal stop before or not).
Glottal stop is also what separates the 2 "a"s in the Malay word "maaf".
It's also the cause of Asian people distinguishing English "an aim" from "a name" where Westerners doesn't

I thought there was dialect around Fujian that couldn't distinguish n and ng ending. Which one is that?

Mindong (Eastern Min), as in Fuzhou (Much further North).
Both 三 and 先 ends with ng in that dialect. This dialect is not intelligible with Minnan, perhaps because of their very different vowel inventory.

Some taiwanese can't distinguish n and ng too, right?

This is a limited case. Hakka and Minnan don't have in-ing or en-eng distinctions, but they do have an-ang distinction. Apparently, they also bring this to their Mandarin accents.

Edited by qrasy, 14 February 2009 - 02:33 AM.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK


#7 liketolearn

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 03:12 AM

I missed uơ.

FYI

oai doesn't sound like wai
oay doesn't sound like way
oa doesn't sound like wa
oe doesn't sound like we
uơ doesn't sound like wơ


The ua there sounds like ua as in thua (to lose).

Qua, quan, quen, qui etc. are special cases because the initial is /kw/ which Southern Vietnamese changes to /w/.

Southern Vietnamese school kids are taught that Qu sounds like /w/


We see some similar effects in Cantonese.
e.g. -w- can only be found after k kh or when nothing is before it.
Ancient kh (high) is likely to change to f before w (e.g. 快課科闊 faai3 fo3 fo1 fut3).

Is it possible that this is an influence of Cantonese on Vietnamese since there are many Cantonese residing in South Vietnam?

I'm also a Southern Vietnamese but I don't turn khỏe into phẻ. However, I've heard many other Southern Vietnamese do that especially the ones from rural areas.


Edit: So, can you list the vowels and consonants in the Chinese dialects that you know?

Edited by liketolearn, 14 February 2009 - 03:26 AM.


#8 qrasy

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 04:18 AM

oai doesn't sound like wai
oay doesn't sound like way
oa doesn't sound like wa
oe doesn't sound like we
uơ doesn't sound like wơ

They don't in Northern Vietnamese, but I think it's because of glottal stop. If something else is added in front of them, I think they should sound like that, e.g. thuở sounds like thwở.
And then there are combinations like queo quao, etc, do you count them?

Btw, how about ươ - ua issue? It seems that the difference is because you have to add something after ươ but you have to not add anything after ưa.

The ua there sounds like ua as in thua (to lose).

By "there", are you referring to qua or mua?
Does oa in loa sound like qua?
uai in quai sounds like oai in loi (ignoring tones)?

Is it possible that this is an influence of Cantonese on Vietnamese since there are many Cantonese residing in South Vietnam?

kw still exists in many words, too, in Cantonese. For example, I found that khwa is never changed to fa or wa.

So, can you list the vowels and consonants in the Chinese dialects that you know?

Standard Mandarin
Monophthong: a i u o ə (e)
Diphthong: ai ao ou ia ie ua uo ei e (iə uə ə)
Triphthong: iao iou uei uai
Notes: - I chose ə to represent a vowel easily distinguished from e but written the same. Real e is only for interjection "eh".
- o in -ong and o in the interjection oh is different, but o in oh is not usually distinct from uo and o in ong is probably just u. ə/o also have only 1 minimal pair.
- ə in en/eng is different from the one in ge, but not distinguished.
- a in an is also different from ang, but never distinguished. Allophonic.
- iə/uə/ə is probably only a change of i/u/ before n
- e is isolated
- ia in ian sounds ie but not ia as in "iang" (e.g. jiang) or xia.
- iou/uei are often written iu/ui
- a is not listed even though we find jan because it's actually e with different writing.

Standard Cantonese
Monophthong: aa a i u o e (ɵ ɪ ʊ)
Diphthong: aai aau ai au iu ui oi ou ei
Notes: - rhymes with w has been excluded from consideration, e.g. guo, gwang
- long/short "a" are distinct only if something follows it, this situation is similar to Vietnamese.
- ɵ ɪ ʊ are considered short forms of i u and sounds different to me, but they are always found in different environment.
- Hong Kong Cantonese has to distinguish long and short because of the merger.

vowels that can follow w/kw/khw are aa, aai, a, ai, ɪ, o, u, ui
vowels that can follow y are aa aai a ai au e i (ɵ ɪ ʊ), interjection o, and then yi and y are just allophonic of i and . -y- does not exist in Vietnamese and Cantonese.

Edited by qrasy, 14 February 2009 - 04:20 AM.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK


#9 asiaeast

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 10:37 PM

I thought there was dialect around Fujian that couldn't distinguish n and ng ending. Which one is that?

Some taiwanese can't distinguish n and ng too, right?


I'm taking Chinese lesson in Taiwan and my Chinese teaching is constantly pushing me to make my n and ng clear. He says one has a longer ending sound. For n, I put my tongue against the back of my upper teeth. I can say it correctly in English, n and ng, so I'm not sure why it's not clear in my Chinese.

#10 asiaeast

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Posted 14 February 2009 - 10:49 PM

For example, in the word "lian", -ian isn't a vowel, but -ia- would be considered as a vowel (a diphthong).

Thanks.


I like to think that for a word like lian, there are two syllables. Li and an make two sounds, so the combination ia doesn't make one vowels, like it does in English.

I learned the bo-po-mo-fo system used here in Taiwan. I've got some rules that might help, but be warned, I made these rules up myself.

1. combining yi and an, two sounds, resulting in yian
2. combining yi and en, one sound, where the e drops out and you get yin
3. rules 1 and 2 also apply to yi and ang, yi and eng
4. comining wu and an, one sound, where one vowel drops out. I think you get wan, not wun.
5. combining wu and en, result is one sound, wen.
6. combining yu and an, two sounds, yuan.
7. combining yu and en, one sound, yun.
8 combining yu and eng, one sound, yong (this one is different from the rest for some reason.)

In general, the vowels i and u can be combined with a to create two sounds, where i and u cancel out e. a cancels out u.

Hope that helps!

#11 liketolearn

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 12:19 AM

They don't in Northern Vietnamese, but I think it's because of glottal stop. If something else is added in front of them, I think they should sound like that, e.g. thuở sounds like thwở.

The w sound doesn't exist in Northern Vietnamese. Wendy would be changed to Oendy for example. But Oendy doesn't sound like Wendy.

Southern Vietnamese is the opposite. In Southern Vietnamese, oai would be changed to wai, oen would be changed to wen. But the w in wen is a consonant, but "o" in "oen" is a vowel

And then there are combinations like queo quao, etc, do you count them?

Now that you mention, there is some triphthong such as oeo in Vietnamese, like khoo. But I missed it.

Btw, how about ươ - ua issue? It seems that the difference is because you have to add something after ươ but you have to not add anything after ưa.

Now that you mention, I do think they sound similar. The vowel list in that post was made by me and I never noticed the similarity between ươ and ưa before. :D


By "there", are you referring to qua or mua?

I was refering to mua (to buy)
mua (to buy) and thua (to lose) rhyme with each other, but they don't rhyme with qua.

Does oa in loa sound like qua?
uai in quai sounds like oai in loi (ignoring tones)?

Yes, they rhyme.

kw still exists in many words, too, in Cantonese. For example, I found that khwa is never changed to fa or wa.

The way Southern Vietnamese change kw to f is also random.


Standard Mandarin
Monophthong: a i u o ə (e)
Diphthong: ai ao ou ia ie ua uo ei e (iə uə ə)
Triphthong: iao iou uei uai
Notes: - I chose ə to represent a vowel easily distinguished from e but written the same. Real e is only for interjection "eh".
- o in -ong and o in the interjection oh is different, but o in oh is not usually distinct from uo and o in ong is probably just u. ə/o also have only 1 minimal pair.
- ə in en/eng is different from the one in ge, but not distinguished.
- a in an is also different from ang, but never distinguished. Allophonic.
- iə/uə/ə is probably only a change of i/u/ before n
- e is isolated
- ia in ian sounds ie but not ia as in "iang" (e.g. jiang) or xia.
- iou/uei are often written iu/ui
- a is not listed even though we find jan because it's actually e with different writing.

Standard Cantonese
Monophthong: aa a i u o e (ɵ ɪ ʊ)
Diphthong: aai aau ai au iu ui oi ou ei
Notes: - rhymes with w has been excluded from consideration, e.g. guo, gwang
- long/short "a" are distinct only if something follows it, this situation is similar to Vietnamese.
- ɵ ɪ ʊ are considered short forms of i u and sounds different to me, but they are always found in different environment.
- Hong Kong Cantonese has to distinguish long and short because of the merger.

For some reason, I always thought Cantonese had more vowels than Mandarin. Probably because of the endings like p t k.

vowels that can follow w/kw/khw are aa, aai, a, ai, ɪ, o, u, ui

So if they are followed by other vowels, they would be changed to f?

vowels that can follow y are aa aai a ai au e i (ɵ ɪ ʊ), interjection o, and then yi and y are just allophonic of i and . -y- does not exist in Vietnamese and Cantonese.

What -y- were you refering to???

/j/ does not exist in Northern Vietnamese (New York becomes Niu Ooc) but it does exist in Southern Vietnamese.

#12 liketolearn

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 12:23 AM

I like to think that for a word like lian, there are two syllables. Li and an make two sounds, so the combination ia doesn't make one vowels, like it does in English.

I learned the bo-po-mo-fo system used here in Taiwan. I've got some rules that might help, but be warned, I made these rules up myself.

1. combining yi and an, two sounds, resulting in yian
2. combining yi and en, one sound, where the e drops out and you get yin
3. rules 1 and 2 also apply to yi and ang, yi and eng
4. comining wu and an, one sound, where one vowel drops out. I think you get wan, not wun.
5. combining wu and en, result is one sound, wen.
6. combining yu and an, two sounds, yuan.
7. combining yu and en, one sound, yun.
8 combining yu and eng, one sound, yong (this one is different from the rest for some reason.)

In general, the vowels i and u can be combined with a to create two sounds, where i and u cancel out e. a cancels out u.

Hope that helps!

Are you serious?

So for the word "lian" as in lotus, you say LEE-AN? It's hard for me to believe.

#13 qrasy

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 06:34 AM

I can say it correctly in English, n and ng, so I'm not sure why it's not clear in my Chinese.

It might be only his own worries, btw.
Some people try to make hypercorrections (i.e. over-emphasis on words that have unclear distinction to them).

I like to think that for a word like lian, there are two syllables. Li and an make two sounds, so the combination ia doesn't make one vowels, like it does in English.

That is not the case for native Chinese. It is done only to help non-Chinese pronounce Chinese's complicated vowel system.
Just like, the Mainland Chinese will pronounce "Mass" in 2 syllables, "Ma" followed by "ss". But that never happens for Westerners.

1. combining yi and an, two sounds, resulting in yian

Firstly, "yian" is not Pinyin. The correct form is "yan".

3. rules 1 and 2 also apply to yi and ang, yi and eng

Yang, Ying.

4. comining wu and an, one sound, where one vowel drops out.

The vowel that drops out are not random but follows conventions.

In general, the vowels i and u can be combined with a to create two sounds, where i and u cancel out e. a cancels out u.

A does not cancel u. We have syllables like guan, tuan, suan

The rules are:
1. en is simplified to n after i and u except for wen, wei, weng.
2. eng is simplified to ng after i, and change to ong under u if nothing is before (yong after yu but no preceding consonant, iong after yu if there's preceding consonant).
3. wu=w=u and y=yi=i:
a. u/i if there are preceding consonant (e.g. s- t-)
b. if there are no preceding consonant:
b1. wu when isolated, yi when no other vowel remaining after 1 and 2
b2. w when there are vowels following, y before vowels other than en/eng.
4. uei and iou becomes ui and iu except for wei.
5. Additional rule applies when yu follows another thing and doesn't change to iong:
After jqx it's u after nl it's .

The formulation above is a bit awkward for ㄨ/ㄧ because they are treated as wu/yi instead of their basic form u/i.
Rules 1-3 above are much more simplified if u/i are taken:

If we have i, we omit e in en/eng always.
if we have u, if nothing is before it we change u to w, but if something is before it we simplify u + en/eng/ei to un/ong/ui,
"yu" is treated like i+u then follows the above rule with the "i" still there.
If i and u is the frontmost, we change to y and w.

The w sound doesn't exist in Northern Vietnamese. Wendy would be changed to Oendy for example. But Oendy doesn't sound like Wendy.

I am referring to things like English "swing", "swan", "sway" and then Vietnamese xoăn, xoay
"Swing" sounds like "xuynh" which rhymes with "huynh".
Would you split xoăn -> /sw/ + ăn or /s/ + ăn?

I was refering to mua (to buy)
mua (to buy) and thua (to lose) rhyme with each other, but they don't rhyme with qua.

Indeed, because the u combines with q first instead of with a. Therefore, quốc sounds distinct from cuốc.
That would make 2 different vowel combinations from u.

For some reason, I always thought Cantonese had more vowels than Mandarin. Probably because of the endings like p t k.

In the above analysis, Cantonese seem to have very few vowel combinations because we have not considered those sounds containing -w-.
Indeed Cantonese have many more rhymes than Mandarin mostly because of ptk.

So if they are followed by other vowels, they would be changed to f?

In the above I just listed the ones that are found in kw/khw/w without saying which one is which. Words with other vowels are not found after those initials.

What -y- were you refering to???

/j/ does not exist in Northern Vietnamese (New York becomes Niu Ooc) but it does exist in Southern Vietnamese.

What I mean was a /j/ after another consonant and before vowels.
If you ever know Burmese you will see a lot of -y- things like pya dya gya

Edited by qrasy, 15 February 2009 - 06:41 AM.

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#14 liketolearn

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 04:12 PM

It might be only his own worries, btw.
Some people try to make hypercorrections (i.e. over-emphasis on words that have unclear distinction to them).

That is not the case for native Chinese. It is done only to help non-Chinese pronounce Chinese's complicated vowel system.
Just like, the Mainland Chinese will pronounce "Mass" in 2 syllables, "Ma" followed by "ss". But that never happens for Westerners.

Firstly, "yian" is not Pinyin. The correct form is "yan".

Yang, Ying.

The vowel that drops out are not random but follows conventions.

A does not cancel u. We have syllables like guan, tuan, suan

The rules are:
1. en is simplified to n after i and u except for wen, wei, weng.
2. eng is simplified to ng after i, and change to ong under u if nothing is before (yong after yu but no preceding consonant, iong after yu if there's preceding consonant).
3. wu=w=u and y=yi=i:
a. u/i if there are preceding consonant (e.g. s- t-)
b. if there are no preceding consonant:
b1. wu when isolated, yi when no other vowel remaining after 1 and 2
b2. w when there are vowels following, y before vowels other than en/eng.
4. uei and iou becomes ui and iu except for wei.
5. Additional rule applies when yu follows another thing and doesn't change to iong:
After jqx it's u after nl it's .

The formulation above is a bit awkward for ㄨ/ㄧ because they are treated as wu/yi instead of their basic form u/i.
Rules 1-3 above are much more simplified if u/i are taken:

If we have i, we omit e in en/eng always.
if we have u, if nothing is before it we change u to w, but if something is before it we simplify u + en/eng/ei to un/ong/ui,
"yu" is treated like i+u then follows the above rule with the "i" still there.
If i and u is the frontmost, we change to y and w.

So complicated...What do u mean when u say they are "simplified"?

I am referring to things like English "swing", "swan", "sway" and then Vietnamese xoăn, xoay
"Swing" sounds like "xuynh" which rhymes with "huynh".
Would you split xoăn -> /sw/ + ăn or /s/ + ăn?

swan doesn't sound like Viet xoan at all. In "swan", there's the [w] sound. In xoan, there's no [w] sound. As I said, wan sounds different from oan.
Most Southern Viet would pronounce xoan as xong. Similarly, điện thoại (telephone) would become điệng thọi. Xoi (mango) would become xi or xi.
However, Huynh is changed to Wing, Hoan is changed to Wang.

Xoăn = /s/ + oăn

Indeed, because the u combines with q first instead of with a. Therefore, quốc sounds distinct from cuốc.
That would make 2 different vowel combinations from u.

A few Northern Vietnamese say quốc very similar to cuốc.

But they are always distinct in Southern Vietnamese as "quốc" is pronounced like "wấc" in Southern Vietnamese, but then Southern Vietnamese don't distinct quốc and quất, uất because they also sound like "wấc" in Southern Vietnamese

BTW u know a lot about Vietnamese for a Chinese. Did u take a class on Vietnamese?

Edited by liketolearn, 15 February 2009 - 04:14 PM.


#15 qrasy

qrasy

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 09:49 AM

So complicated...What do u mean when u say they are "simplified"?

For example, comparing the Zhuyin system with Hanyu Pinyin,
ㄧ = i
ㄨ = u
ㄣ = en
ㄇ = m
Then, ㄇㄧ=mi, ㄇㄨ=mu, ㄇㄣ=men (I assume you have a Chinese font)
But then the combination "ㄧㄣ" is transcribed by Hanyu Pinyin as "in" instead of "ien". This simplifies the writing.

swan doesn't sound like Viet xoan at all. In "swan", there's the [w] sound. In xoan, there's no [w] sound. As I said, wan sounds different from oan.

I am talking about North Vietnamese.
I see that in this link, http://vi.wiktionary....org/wiki/xoăn (probably translation done by machine), it has the /w/ sound.
It has difficulty, though, in irregular words containing "".

Most Southern Viet would pronounce xoan as xong. Similarly, điện thoại (telephone) would become điệng thọi. Xoi (mango) would become xi or xi.

It seems that the same feature is found in Cantonese. In Cantonese, if /w/ neither takes the first place nor follow k/kh, it will "merge with the rhyme".
For example, in Middle Chinese 軌 and 水 rhyme. But in Cantonese, 軌 is gwai2 (Viet: quy) but 水 is seui2 (eui sounds somewhat between i and ơi).

However, Huynh is changed to Wing, Hoan is changed to Wang.

Northern Vietnamese still keeps the h- and -n intact, so I am guessing it is more like hWing, hWan.
This was what I thought: huynh -> hw+inh, hoan -> hw + an (applies in North as well).
In Cantonese, /hw/ never occurs. Sometimes what you would expect to be /hw/ is changed to w, sometimes to f.
So Mandarin 還 hun is waan4 in Cantonese, Mandarin huān 歡 is fun1 in Cantonese.
(ok, 還 and 歡 didn't rhyme in Middle Chinese, but merged in Mandarin)

Anyway, to analyze "tuyệt" as "tw" + "iệt" helps in learning how to pronounce "-uy-".

A few Northern Vietnamese say quốc very similar to cuốc.

But they are always distinct in Southern Vietnamese as "quốc" is pronounced like "wấc" in Southern Vietnamese, but then Southern Vietnamese don't distinct quốc and quất, uất because they also sound like "wấc" in Southern Vietnamese

I wonder though, if quốc sounds more like quấc than quốc. Afterall, u and u differ mostly by length.

BTW u know a lot about Vietnamese for a Chinese. Did u take a class on Vietnamese?

Nope. I just "observed" the dictionaries and other things. To verify it, I can listen to some videos in Youtube.
I can find some mistakes in vowels as well, I wonder if it's Southern Vietnamese trying to pronounce the standard language, though, for example "u" pronounced like "u".
From phonetics in Wikipedia, I notice that in "đến", n is pronounced like n in South.

Also in this way I could observe that
1. In Vietnamese songs, sometimes -k -t -p is changed to -ng -n -m to make the sound pronounceable longer, similar thing can be found in Cantonese songs.
In Khmer songs, -t is changed to -tn instead.
2. đ, b sounds "deeper" than English counterpart.
3. Vietnamese kh is sounds more like /kʰx/ than /x/.
4. Northern Vietnamese ch doesn't sound quite like /c/. Something closer to /ts/, perhaps /tɕ/.

---------------
btw, I never thought of it before, is "Việt" really pronounced like "Yuck" in South? :P

Edited by qrasy, 16 February 2009 - 10:02 AM.

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