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Koreans in genomic context


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#1 SNK_1408

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:19 AM

This isn't surprising or interesting as we already know about Koreans, but this will show indefinite answer to these who wanting to research about Korean genealogy.
http://dienekes.blog...jung-et-al.html


Full report:
http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0011855
역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#2 Krisz95

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 02:40 AM

It 's interesting.

Jeju Korean don't share Korean markers with Korean, rather they are closer to Japanese?

And it shows:

Korean + Vietnamese mixed children= Northern Han Chinese

#3 DerChagatai

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:02 PM

Posted Image

Koreans have more southeast asian connections than those three japanese groups that are more altaic. see tai kadai
this popular korean guy has obviously some se asian ancestry
http://img145.images...tled34nuqs6.jpg

#4 Krisz95

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 11:30 PM

The "Tai-kadai" (blue) marker is more of an "East Asian" marker, not Southeast Asian.

The real true Southeast Asian marker is Austronesian (green). Both Japanese and Chinese have more of the Austronesian marker than Koreans.

The Austronesian (green) marker predominates in the Southeast Asian populations (Phillipines, Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan, Southern China, Singapore and Indonesia). The Tai-kadai (blue) marker is nearly absent in most of these populations.

Edited by Krisz95, 22 October 2010 - 12:31 AM.


#5 DerChagatai

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:33 AM

The "Tai-kadai" (blue) marker is more of an "East Asian" marker, not Southeast Asian.

The real true Southeast Asian marker is Austronesian (green). Both Japanese and Chinese have more of the Austronesian marker than Koreans.

The Austronesian (green) marker predominates in the Southeast Asian populations (Phillipines, Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan, Southern China, Singapore and Indonesia). The Tai-kadai (blue) marker is nearly absent in most of these populations.


yes Kadai (Kradai) is very east asian
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#6 Krisz95

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:37 AM

yes Kadai (Kradai) is very east asian
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For your interest, the authors just designated the term "Tai-kadai" to define the marker for East Asian specificity. It has nothing to do with the language. The Tai-kadai marker doesn 't occur within Southeast Asians. But Austronesian and Austro-Asiatic does.

I guess it depends what you define as "Southeast Asian". Thais are definitely Southeast Asian but are not Austronesians. Malaysians, etc are both Austronesian and Southeast Asian.

Thai is Tai-Kadai. Vietnamese and Cambodian are Austro-Asiatic. So really, Austronesian and Austro-Asiatic are the real Southeast Asian markers.

Edited by Krisz95, 22 October 2010 - 12:59 AM.


#7 Karakhan

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 02:49 PM

I would probably take caution on basing genetic backgrounds with language grouping, simply because entire groups of people can change languages.
for example, historically: predominantly Mediterranean adopting the language that originated in Asia (Modern day Turkish people), or even in the modern day.. such as African Americans who's native language is one that originated in Western Europe not Africa.

In the context of the above posts, the Thai language supposedly originated in modern day southern China, however around the time of Mongol expansion, many moved south deeper into South East Asia. Many of the populations there who spoke other languages were assimilated into Thai culture and now speak a Thai language.

#8 SNK_1408

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 03:00 AM

Posted Image

Koreans have more southeast asian connections than those three japanese groups that are more altaic. see tai kadai
this popular korean guy has obviously some se asian ancestry
http://img145.images...tled34nuqs6.jpg


If that's true then Koreans must be more diverse than Japanese.
Please note the terms "altaic" and "tai kadai" is very vague and general, basically altaic is referring to "Northern Mongoloid" or NE Asian stock and tai kadai is "East Asian" stock, nothing do with linguistic group as you've pointed out. Remember this Hugo research paper was based on genetic distance study, it doesn't covers language groups. Please note Korean language is not associated with SE Asian language group. Also, notice that Hugo research diagram shows Koreans have less "Austronesian" than Japanese.

Korea was connected to Asian continent was able to continuously received immigrants from China where as Japan was more isolated and have been receiving already mutated genes via Korean peninsula.

That photo of Korean man can passed for any East Asian nationality.

Edited by SNK_1408, 25 October 2010 - 03:02 AM.

역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#9 DerChagatai

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 05:22 PM

If that's true then Koreans must be more diverse than Japanese.
Please note the terms "altaic" and "tai kadai" is very vague and general, basically altaic is referring to "Northern Mongoloid" or NE Asian stock and tai kadai is "East Asian" stock, nothing do with linguistic group as you've pointed out. Remember this Hugo research paper was based on genetic distance study, it doesn't covers language groups. Please note Korean language is not associated with SE Asian language group. Also, notice that Hugo research diagram shows Koreans have less "Austronesian" than Japanese.

Korea was connected to Asian continent was able to continuously received immigrants from China where as Japan was more isolated and have been receiving already mutated genes via Korean peninsula.

That photo of Korean man can passed for any East Asian nationality.


its hilarious that you emphasize much time on pointing out the difference in the amount of Austronesian Koreans and Japanese have even though both are miniscule to begin with..could you point out how much the difference is relative to the entire make up!?
at the same time you ignore the fact that the blue line on Koreans is twice as much as the Japanese. so instead of focusing on Koreans are less Austronesian than Japanese.. an issue thats probably negligible based on how small that green bar is. How about saying either.. Koreans are less Altaic than Japanese, Koreans are more Chinese than Japanese?
and no, that Korean man would never pass as Mongolian.
Also it would be interesting if this research was repeated again in 10 years. The make up of Korans will probably change significantly since more and more are half Vietnamese now.

#10 SNK_1408

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 11:49 PM

its hilarious that you emphasize much time on pointing out the difference in the amount of Austronesian Koreans and Japanese have even though both are miniscule to begin with..could you point out how much the difference is relative to the entire make up!?
at the same time you ignore the fact that the blue line on Koreans is twice as much as the Japanese. so instead of focusing on Koreans are less Austronesian than Japanese.. an issue thats probably negligible based on how small that green bar is. How about saying either.. Koreans are less Altaic than Japanese, Koreans are more Chinese than Japanese?
and no, that Korean man would never pass as Mongolian.
Also it would be interesting if this research was repeated again in 10 years. The make up of Korans will probably change significantly since more and more are half Vietnamese now.


Don't tell me you're one of these fake troll trying to disguised as Mongolian.
Read my comment again, how come Japanese be more altaic than Koreans when they have less C3 marker? Also, Japanese have more O3d marker (Chinese) than Koreans too. Actually more Filipino/Vietnamese brides immigrated to Japan than S.Korea, so your comment is negligent.
Posted Image

One photo of person doesn't proof anything my little friend.
역사를 보면 결국 힘있는 자가 힘없는 자를 정복하고 약탈하는 것입니다.
역사를 왜곡하는 민족은 반드시 멸망한다.
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#11 DerChagatai

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:28 AM

Don't tell me you're one of these fake troll trying to disguised as Mongolian.

Lol, can't argue against facts so you try to attack the poster instead.
Actually I'm not Mongolian nor did I claim to be one. I'm American but I can be Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, or whatever you want to make you feel better :)

Read my comment again, how come Japanese be more altaic than Koreans when they have less C3 marker? Also, Japanese have more O3d marker (Chinese) than Koreans too.


Actually I'm more interested in seeing you explain why the yellow Altaic line is alot longer in the Japanese sample, and why the blue Tai-Kadai line is akot longer in the Korean samples of the previous chart, seeing as how you were willing to point out the small difference in the green line between the Japanese and Korean samples. You can post as many new charts as you want, but I'd like to hear your answer on this one :)

Actually more Filipino/Vietnamese brides immigrated to Japan than S.Korea, so your comment is negligent.

So how many brides are going to Japan versus south Korea? And its not negligent, because even if one billion Filipinos move to Japan, it doesn't change the fact that Korea's genetic make up is changing because its marrying Vietnamese. Nice try at dismissing it.

#12 Karakhan

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 02:16 PM

SNK, Derchagatai,

its quite clear that both of you are turning this thread on Korean genetics into a nationalistic troll fest. consider this a warning not to continue this path of discussion.

secondly both of you are pulling up images and data with out stating its source. please post the journal article or site that they originated from. Such images can easily be taken out of context with out the original source to clarify their methodology, analysis, and results.

#13 Krisz95

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 08:09 AM

He's a Japanese nationalist taking the Austronesian green bar so personally. And a little more admixture means A LOT to population genetics. It takes hundreds or even thousands of generations intermarrying with other gene pools to even make an indentation on the genetic pool. So this means the Japanese had many more interactions with Austronesians, probably since their origin, while Koreans had relatively no admixture from Austronesian populations.

Posted Image

Surprisingly I can barely see any green for the Korean bar. It looks more like the color magenta (Sino-Tibetan). But I can see that Japanese have about 1/4 as much green as Han Chinese. I can see significant Papuan (dark green) and Austro-Asiatic (red) for Ryukyuans.


Also Vietnamese brides in Korea. There's nothing wrong with it. Your nationalistic ideas about it altering the Korean genetic makeup is not backed up with any genetic evidence at all. Korea's total population (N. Korea + S. Korea) of 50+24 million= 74 million, versus how many Vietnamese brides per year? 5000? 5000/74,000,000= what? Not even 0.00001%. And that's taking into account all the couples have babies and dont get divorced and go back to Vietnam.

And the 13% of Korean marriages being international is very misleading. About 50% of these international marriages are with Korean-Chinese women. Another 15% is with Han Chinese women (mostly from Eastern/Northern China) and the other 20% with Vietnamese and a few other ethnics, like Mongolians, Uzbeks (about 10%).

And the genetic shift (if any) will be balanced out by Chinese and Korean-Chinese women. Don't forget Mongolian and Uzbek women, who make up 5-10% of Korea's international marriages

Koreans are not even a pure ethnicity to begin with. There were many interactions with Koreans and Northern Chinese. There were many migrations from Shandong peninsula to Western Korea and vice versa, due to culture exchange and diplomatic relationship. Also I have heard many Vietnamese migrated to Korea centuries ago (I think he had surname Ly and there are clan members in Korea). But Koreans are still a northern population according to genetics. So it doesnt matter. Let those farmers marry whoever they want lol.

And don't forget, Vietnamese + Korean mixed children = genetically Northern Han Chinese. And Northern Hans are pretty close to Koreans anyways, so what is the big deal?

Edited by Krisz95, 29 October 2010 - 08:57 AM.


#14 mohistManiac

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 12:58 PM

Just what exactly is the chart showing? What I mean is why are these countries chosen Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, India, etc? If it's going from East to West isn't it missing quite a big chunk of area by leaving out Mongolia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Burma not to mention China consists of four separate environmental territories by itself north, south, Sichuan basin and beyond, and steppe/desert?

Edited by mohistManiac, 29 October 2010 - 01:09 PM.

I have the fortune of living in the part of the world which has use for toilet paper, but not douches.

#15 DerChagatai

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 02:04 PM

I think you may need an eye check for several reasons

He's a Japanese nationalist taking the Austronesian green bar

I just said I am American in the last post. But if you want me to be a Japanese nationalist so you can set up a straw man argument, I'll be Japanese for you :)

Posted Image


Personally I think its interesting that you cut off a third of the chart. Notice that the number 4 is cut off when the full chart is much longer. I hope you're not trying to manipulate the size of the bar

Surprisingly I can barely see any green for the Korean bar...I can see significant Papuan...Austro-Asiatic (red) for Ryukyuans.


barely any green for korean, but significant red for Ryukyuans, even though that line color is about the same size. interesting how you see things


It looks more like the color magenta (Sino-Tibetan).

Now you're really blind. There's no magenta at all. And if Magenta is supposed to represent Sino-Tibetan, then how come none of the Chinese samples have any Magenta?


also how come you are avoiding the same question. why is the blue bar on the Korean side much longer, and why is the yellow bar on the Japanese side longer?




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