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Chinese Origin in the Bible?


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#136 inca

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 08:49 AM

I know, I know, still skeptical? Well, start reading this:

Caso, Alfonso, M. W. Stirling, S. K. Lothrop, J. E. S. Thompson, J.
García Payon y Gordon F. Ekulm (1946), "¿Conocieron la rueda los
indígenas mesoamericanos?", Cuadernos Americanos, Año 5, n o . 1,
pp. 193-207.
Edwards, Clinton R. (1960), "Sailing Rafts of Sechura: History and
Problems of Origin", Southwestern Jour. Anthrop., n o . 16, pp. 368-91.
Ekholm, Gordon F. (1946), "Wheeled Toys in México", Amer. Antiquity,
n o . 11, pp. 222-28.
- (1953), "A Possible Focus of Asiatic Influence in the Late Classic Cul-
tures of Mesoamérica", en Marion W. Smith (compil), Asia and North
América; Transpacific Contacts, Soc. Amer. Arch. Mem. n o . 9, Menasha,
pp. 72-97.

- (1955), "The New Orientation toward Problems of Asiatic- American
Relationships", en New Interpretations of Aboriginal American Culture
History, Anthrop. Soc. Wash. 75 th Anniv. Vol., Washington D.C.
Estrada, Emilio y Betty J. Meggers (1961), "A Complex of Traits of Prob-
able Transpacific Origin on the Coast of Ecuador", Amer. Anthropolo-
gist, n o 63, pp. 913-39.
Estrada, Emilio y Betty J. Meggers y Clifford Evans Jr. (1962), "Pos-ssible Transpacific Contact on the Coast of Ecuador", Science, n o 135,
pp. 371-72.
Heine-Geldern, Robert (1959ª), "Chinese Influences in México and
Central América: The Tajin Style of México and the Marble Vases from
Honduras", en Actas del 33er. Congr. Internac. de Americanistas, San
José, Costa Rica, 1958, San José.
- (1959b), "Representation of the Asiatic Tiger in the Art of the Chavin
Culture: A Proof of Early Contacts between China and Perú", en Actas
del 33er. Congr. Intern. de Americanistas, San José, Costa Rica, 1958,
San José.

Needham, Joseph (1954), Science and Civilization in Chine, vol. 1;
Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge.
Schurz, William Lytle (1959) The Manila Galleon, Dutton, Nueva York.
Wauchope, Robert (1962), Lost Tribes and Sunken Continents, Univ.
Of Chicago Press, Chicago.

#137 inca

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 09:44 AM

Perhaps you wanna discuss this with scholar Mr. Xu:
http://members.tripo...es/olmshang.htm
http://www.sinorama....5/605006e1.html
Now, you may ask, okey we're delaing here with China and Mexico. What does this have to do with the Bible? [u]Read Genesis 4:17 and we are dealing with Cain's son Enoch who built a city called "city of Enoch". In Aztec nahuatl language that city was remembered as T-Enochtitlán. It's obvious the Aztecs were only dwelling in a place that was in the past a memory of ancient times. T- in several cultures is the Tau or the mark of a cross or 4. Interesting the symbol of China (really the name of the country was Chung-Kuo or cuntry of the centre or middle and not China which was the dinasty the Chinese were living at when they were asked from what country they came from and they delivered the diplomatic reply) is the centre of the square which is the symbol of the 4 lines closed....like the rivers of Eden.

#138 inca

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Posted 11 March 2006 - 09:56 AM

In the first link of the message prior to the one above you may need to click "go" on the arrow til you open the page in spite of reading "concluded" the search as seen below, you may see interesting photographs.
You can also check this:
http://www.americanh...1966_3_42.shtml
:o

#139 Ryz05

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 05:02 AM

Thank you for sharing these links with us, Inca, I never knew that there's such a rich internet resource on ancient China and its effects on world history. If these accounts hold to be true, then ancient Chinese influence on human history is beyond our wildest dreams.

Too bad that the ideas are not as popular as we never really hear such things in the news, but it's a good thing that people like you are spreading the word and bringing these ideas into light.

#140 Yun

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 06:14 AM

In XV century the Chinese priest Hwui Shin got to the land of aloes called Fusang that could well be a description of Mexico or the source of paper broussonetia payrifera.

There is no evidence that Huishen himself was from China. He merely turned up in China in the 5th century and claimed to be from a land called Fusang. The Fusang=Mexico theory is an old one dating to the 18th century, and it has pretty much been shown to be very flimsy indeed.

Read this thread for Huishen and Fusang: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=9554

Maybe possible Chinese sailors got to American coast in V century or even prior in 219 B.C. when Hai King traveled to mysterious Hinterland describing what could be Grand Canyon.


I believe you are mistaking 'Shan Hai King' (Shanhai Jing) as a person. It is actually a book.

Hsü Fu and other 3 thousand young people traveled in reed ships from China in 219 never to return, they were searching elixir of life.



What evidence is there that these were reed ships?

For discussions of Xu Fu, please see: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=9986
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#141 inca

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:47 AM

Everytime I read darwinist insist on saying evolution is a fact is rhetorical attitude spoken by people who usually ignore mainly about mutation unknown by Darwin himself, as if by repeating "it's a fact" ad infinitum magically transforms the dogma of a frog becoming a prince in a second flat into reality. This repetition is a Nazi tactic of believing their own lies and disguise them with words in Latin. Then the evolutionist invented spectacular words like "macroevolution" or "microevolution" to disregard fossil evidence (very convenient indeed) due to the explanation evolution happened "so fast" it didn't need to leave a fossil record. Hahaha! :clapping:

But let's get back to the topic. Chinese culture was always a bit xenophobic regarding foreigners so ancient language was not imported from Judaism, hence those "similarities" (just like others in the world) are not mere coincidence but ancient truth which was somehow more or less distorted. If Darwinist have too much of a problem saying Adam was a man, let's call it homo sapiens because adamah like Sumerian adamu or adapa is just that: a man like your forefathers if you rewind the videotape of time. Now, if you're dealing with those fantastic measurement of TIME ticking (Chronus was always the quick response of evolutionists to "explain" everything but entropy action), you can always ask specialist in genetic or DNAmt like Rebeca Cann... who are skeptical regarding millions of years. :wallbash: When they follow the genetic trail even domestic animals, they withdraw let's say 180.000 years to "man" if that African "Eve" had multiple sex partners or mere 22.000 if a single 'ADAM'.

BTW, Genesis Hebrew account makes a difference between "barah" (create") and form or model (yadha) which is not creation ex nihilo.

Edited by inca, 04 March 2009 - 09:00 AM.


#142 inca

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:56 AM

Someone asked how come millions of people is the result of a group of 8 people.
http://www.creationi...rg/fruitful.jpg
Interesting is after the Deluge (which is universal 'myth' even where there's no sea!) probably the sunlight came as never before and allowed some mutations among the limitations of the DNA within species. Could this explain the blossom of many species which is the result of multiple combinations within themselves? Race is superficial thing and is produced by isolation, geographical or other thing.

#143 Lacrymosa

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Posted 04 March 2009 - 10:48 AM

Chronus was always the quick response of evolutionists to "explain" everything but entropy action


The funny thing is that few creationists understand the simple entropy theory. That's why some people created a propaganda on internet saying that evolution theory contradicts the second law of thermodynamics, because most people don't understand the entropy theory at all. In reality, the two theories do not contradict each other.

Edited by Lacrymosa, 04 March 2009 - 01:20 PM.


#144 DaMo

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:13 PM

Then the evolutionist invented spectacular words like "macroevolution" or "microevolution" to disregard fossil evidence (very convenient indeed) due to the explanation evolution happened "so fast" it didn't need to leave a fossil record. Hahaha!


The distinction does not exist in evolution theory. It exists in creationist claims, which defines certain original divinely-created "kinds" and claims evolution is possible within those kinds (microevolution), but that one kind cannot diverge into others (macroevolution). Of course, these kinds will be defined by ideology and superficial similarities rather than reason and genetic similarities, placing humans as their own kind outside the ape kind, but all felines in the same kind (ref: baraminology). Evolution theory recognizes only one kind of evolution.

In Aztec nahuatl language that city was remembered as T-Enochtitlán. It's obvious the Aztecs were only dwelling in a place that was in the past a memory of ancient times. T- in several cultures is the Tau or the mark of a cross or 4.


Ah, but was it a cross in Aztec writing?

(Hint: the Aztec wrote in glyphs)

Beside, the "noch" name of Tenochtitlan sounds an awful lot like the name of a prickly pear plant in the region. Please exercise judicious use of Occam's razor.

Interesting the symbol of China (really the name of the country was Chung-Kuo or cuntry of the centre or middle and not China which was the dinasty the Chinese were living at when they were asked from what country they came from and they delivered the diplomatic reply) is the centre of the square which is the symbol of the 4 lines closed....like the rivers of Eden.


The character for "center" is a rectangle with a single vertical line through it, not a "square which is the symbol of the 4 lines closed" (and this character had pretty much the same form in ancient times). The name Chung Kuo or Zhong Guo was used because the Chinese believed they were in the center of the world, not in the center of some "square". How this translates to the "rivers of Eden" is not quite clear to me.
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#145 Old Man

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 12:04 AM

The Chinese did once worship a God called Shangdi, so what you said is very interesting. If the religion is that organized, it never really survived down to this day, as it was taken over by buddhism or athiesm.


You are absolutely right that if the religion is that organized, it would have survived down to this day. Because Shangdi was/were Shang kings’ ancestors, the Chinese people never worshipped someone ancestors not even they were the king/emperors’ ancestors unless they are regarded as Gods by the popular masses. That is why Shangdi faded away after the fall of Shang dynasty while San Huang Wu Di 三皇五帝 regarded as Gods survive to this day.

As Walter A. Fairservis, Jr, in his book “The Origins of Oriental Civilization” published by The New American Library pointed out that “Shang Ti”, who may have been the first ancestor of the Shang or perhaps of the Chinese themselves…”, Shangdi could be a general term for past Shang emperors and Gods in the heaven. As Chinese society after Shang became more developed & civilized, Shangdi may be separated into two entities; one strictly for ancestors 祖仙 whilst the other 天神 “Tian Shen” or Gods of the Heaven or Assembly of Gods. That may be another reason why Shangdi faded away after the fall of Shang dynasty.

#146 Old Man

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 12:19 AM

Strictly speaking you are wrong. To this very day Chinese Christians still refer to God as Shangdi. Chinese philosophers of religion still refer to the philosophical God as Shangdi. Shangdi has been worshipped by the Chinese people for nearly four thousand years. Shangdi is still our Supereme God...

Officially the Supereme God worshipped was not just called Tian, He has an official "imperial" title, 皇天上帝,Huang Tian Shang Di, (this explicitly shows that Tian = Shangdi) literally "Supereme Soverign God of Heaven". Nominally He is the real ruler of China, the emperor is only a steward acting on his behalf.



You are wrong. Shangdi hasn’t been worshipped by the Chinese people for nearly four thousand years. Shangdi faded away after the Shang dynasty ended.

Where do you get this information that “Officially the Supereme God worshipped was not just called Tian, He has an official "imperial" title, 皇天上帝,Huang Tian Shang Di, (this explicitly shows that Tian = Shangdi) literally "Supereme Soverign God of Heaven". Nominally He is the real ruler of China, the emperor is only a steward acting on his behalf”?

Shangdi who were generally regarded ancestors of Shang dynasty or perhaps of the Chinese themselves while 皇天上帝 Huang Tian Shang Di was the main ancestral 祖仙 tablet of the Qing dynasty sitting alongside with eight former Qing emperor’s tablets in the Beijing’s Temple of Heaven.

If Shangdi 上帝 and 皇天上帝,Huang Tian Shang Di were regarded Chinese Gods, the Chinese would erect temples under their names in many parts of the world and would continuously be worshipped till this day like the earliest Gods of "San Huang Wu Di 三皇五帝" .

It was only when the Chinese converted to Christianity during the Qing dynasty that they refer Shangdi and Huang Tian Shang Di as their supreme God because their missionaries told them so. Ironically, the ancestral gods of Shang (Shangdi) and Qing’s ancestral gods (Huang Tian Shang Di) were regarded by the Chinese Christians as their supreme god. Surely, Shangdi and Huang Tian Shang Di were not mentioned in KJB.

Also refer to my posts in http://www.chinahist...ai/page__st__75 .


Shangdi could not be Bible Supreme God as described in a poem from SHI JING [Book of Odes] 魯頌(PRAISE-SONGS OF LU) 300. 閟宮 BI GONG http://www.cmadras.c...l#_Toc126465082
which translated as follows:

"How pure and still are the solemn temples ,
In their strong solidity and minute completeness !
Highly distinguished was Jiang Yuan ,
Of virtue undeflected .
God(s) (Shangdi 上帝) regarded her with favour ;
And without injury or hurt ,
Immediately , when her months were fulfilled ,
She gave birth to Hou-ji .


Among the descendants of Hou-ji ,
There was king Da ,
Dwelling on the south of [mount] Qi ,
Where the clipping of Shang began .

'God(s) (Shangdi上帝) is with you . '

In spring and autumn he does not neglect [the sacrifices] ;
His offerings are all without error .
To the great and sovereign God(s) 皇皇后帝、
And to his great ancestor Hou-ji,
He offers the victims , red and pure .
Then enjoy, they approve ,
And bestow blessings in large number .
The duke of Zhou , and [your other] great ancestors ,
Also bless you .
In autumn comes the sacrifices of the season ,
But in summer the bulls for it have had their horns capped .
They are the white bull and the red one ;
[There are] the bull-figured goblet in its dignity ;
Roast pig , minced meat , and soups ;

The filial descendant will be blessed .
[Your ancestors]will make you gloriously prosperous !
They will make you long-lived and good ,
To preserve this eastern region ,
Long possessing the State of Lu … " Unquote

During the time, the ancient Chinese worshipped "San Huang Wu Di 三皇五帝" which when the king mentioned Shangdi 上帝, it could also include "San Huang Wu Di 三皇五帝" with their ancestor gods. Note that 皇皇后帝 Huang Huang Hou Di which was translated as Sovereign God in the above poem clearly showed not of one God but several/all Gods. Many a time it is hard to translate Chinese texts to English because the Chinese do not use punctuation, brackets, singular or plural expressions, etc. 皇(皇,后)帝 or Huang (Huang, Hou) Di could mean sovereign/royal (king/emperor & queen/empress) God/s. 皇,皇后,帝 Huang, Huang Hou, Di also means king/emperor & queen/empress Gods.

As we all know Bible Supreme God is all one male divine being but if Shangdi is 皇皇后帝 Huang Huang Hou Di described in Shi Jing, Shangdi included male and female divine beings.

The Bible Supreme God loves lamb sacrifice but Shangdi had millet, rice and the black millet including roast pig, minced meat (pork), and soups sacrifices.

If Shangdi is Bible Supreme God, God must had double standards; lamb sacrifice in West Asia and roast pig sacrifice in East Asia of China.

Edited by Old Man, 18 August 2011 - 06:23 AM.


#147 Old Man

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 02:16 AM


Adam Fu Hsi
Seth/Caín (first farmer) Shen-nung (first farmer)
Enosh Ch'ih Yu
Kenan Huang Ti
Mahalalel Shao Hao
Jared Chuan Hsu
Enoch/Lamech Shun
Noah Yu

... Chinese culture remember the time of the golden age when first emperor was like first man Adam, governor of the earth, Genesis 1:28 and in fact the story of 10 emperors seems to be an echo of 10 biblical generations with incredible longevity...



In what way did Genesis 1:28 and the story of 10 (Chinese) emperors seems to be an echo of 10 biblical generations with incredible longevity?

Genesis 1:28 states “And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”.

But it has nothing to reflect on the 10 ancient Chinese emperors with the 10 biblical generations. The below 10 (Chinese) emperors also does not seems to be an echo of 10 biblical generations with incredible longevity. See below comparison, the Chinese emperors had relatively shorter lives than that of the biblical generations.

THE PREFLOOD GENERATIONS (From various websites through Google Search)

10 Biblical Generations ------ 10 Ancient Chinese Emperors

Adam (3950-3020 BC) died at 930------ Fu Hsi (3033–2836 BC) died at 197
Seth died at 912 ------ Shen Nung died at 168
Enosh died at 905 ------ Ch’ih Yu 蚩尤was killed by Huangdi in the battle but others said he escaped.
Kenan died at 910 ------- Huangdi 黃帝 died at 100
Mahalalel died at 895 ------ Shao Hao 少昊 died at 84
Jared died at 962 ------ Zhuanxu (顓頊) died at 98
Enosh dies at 905 ------ Ku (帝嚳) died at 70
Methuselah died at 969------ Yao () died at 119
Lamech died at 777 ------ Shun () died at 100
Noah (born 2894) died at 950 ------ Yu () (2200 - 2100 BC) died at 100

*************************************************************************************************

Beginning of the flood: 2294 BC

Noah leaves the ark: 2293 BC

TOWER OF BABEL: 2191 BC

Edited by Old Man, 08 September 2011 - 03:15 AM.


#148 Old Man

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:24 AM

:

During the reing of other emperors, tools of iron and bronze were invented which is the same thing we read in Genesis 4:19-22 and corresponding to Lamech children. The sevent son had a couple of wives and apparently Kung Kung was Noah's father in Chinese stories, the tenth of the list, heroe of the Deluge and related to the discovery of wine. Miao culture migrated to China before Chinese. The third emperor Ch'ih Yu was the boss of the tribes Li which were Miao race. Traditions say Huang Ti led the exodus of people from northeast towards China in those times. First war was precisely between Huang Ti and Ch'ih Yu. All imperial history isn in the middle of post-Deluge sequence. It's possible first migration to China far from Yu who established Hsia dynasty (2205 b.C to 1766 b.C.) after Deluge. Miai tradition also remembers the tongue confusion which is Babel in the Bible and then after mankind stablish in Sinar, Sumer. Hence a comparision between Sumerian and Chinese is a must:

http://www.creationi...hs/v07n4p24.htm
http://www.arky.org/.../misc/aclsc.htm





Sorry, this silly old man, me, is confused.

What is similar between emperors’ invention of iron and bronze tools and Genesis 4: 19-22 and the corresponding to Lamech’s children? Who was the seventh son who had a couple of wives? Regardless who he was, was it an issue? Huangdi 黃帝 had four wives and First Kings 11:1-3 indicates that King Solomon had 700 wives & 300 concubines; whilst before the PRC, the Chinese man’s dream marriage was to have three wives and four concubines/mistresses.

Kung Kung was not Noah’s father in Chinese stories and who was “the tenth of the list, hero of the Deluge that related to the discovery of wine? We know after the global flood, Noah planted a vineyard, made wine, got drunk and exposed himself to one of his sons. If it wasn’t Noah, who did discovered wine making in Sumer or China?

If Ch’ih Yu 蚩尤 (chieftain of Miao 苗 tribe) wasn’t Chinese, why was he referred as “the third emperor”?

Which tradition saidHuang Ti led the exodus of people from northeast towards China in those times”? May I ask, northeast of which country towards China? In the named website: http://www.creationism.org/csshs/v07n4p24.htm claims "Yellow Emperor, led his people from Out of the west”, isn’t it a contradiction?

Miao 苗tribes did not “remember the tongue confusion” as they were ancestor worshippers until they had contact with Christianity in the seventieth century. Ch’ih Yu 蚩尤 and the Miao 苗tribes lived in bible pre-flood era in China and well before Tower of Babel was built in 2191 BC.

Here is a website about Sumerian Polytheism, Sin and a Great Flood Myth, http://www.fsmitha.c...igion-sumer.htm. Does it look familiar? Abraham was patriarch of the Israelites and Arabs and he was from Sumer.

(I) Comment on website http://www.creationi...hs/v07n4p24.htm:
“Genesis 11:1-9 indicates that after the great flood and their eventual arrival in their present homeland, the Chinese must have spent some time in Sumeria (the "land of Shinar"). At least one ancient Chinese legend hints that Huang Ti, the fabled "Yellow Emperor", led his people from Out of the west, and a primitive people, called the Miao, now living in southwest China, say that they arrived in China before him”. Unquote.

It is a false claim and pure speculation. If the author knew one ancient Chinese legend that hints Huangdi led his people from Out of the west, he should mention the source and name of the legend. If there is such a legend, it must be another one of the wild religious claims. There is no proof that the Miao arrived in China before Huangdi as China nation has not been established; merely consisted of many tribes living alongside each other along the Yellow River. Why I said the assumption is false, is because the timeline of Huangdi (2696–2598 BC), the Bible flood (2294 BC) and Tower of Babel (2191 BC) were way apart.

At the author’s own submission that “the absence of any hints of a western origin in earlier texts, has now led many scholars to reject the Shan Hai Ching 山海經 outright”, so there is no point to think otherwise. A brief comment on each claim is as follows:

(1) & (2) They were personal views that can only be served as self interest.
(3) The Miao and many other ethnic Chinese tribes lived along the Yellow River.
(4) The chieftain (Chi You) of Miao tribe fight the first war with Yandi tribe and Yandi lost. Then Yandi asked Huangdi for help and Huangdi army defeated Chi You (Miao) army. Note that the three tribes were living alongside each other whereby Yandi was regarded as 2nd ancient emperor, Chi You as 3rd emperor and Huangdi as 4th emperor. If Miao tribe is not Chinese, why do the Chinese regards Chi You (Miao’s chieftain) as their 3rd ancient emperor?
(5) So “he (Huangdi) appears as virtual ancestor to the Chinese nation”. Does one have any problem with that? If one believes in the bible, was it not the nine generations after Adam were all direct descendants of Adam and even after global flood, people are still descendants of Adam despite of Noah & family were sole survivors and every human still carry Adam’s original sin.
Conclusion: The title of “Huang Ti Chinese Writing and the Postflood Settlement of China by Roy L. Hales” is not only controversial but dishonest and untrue. Huangdi and Miao tribes were among other ethnic tribes settled down in “China” during the pre-flood generation not post-flood period. The bible global flood only lasted one year but floods in China were and still are river floods. Yu 禹 cannot be Noah and vice versa as Noah only built a “boat” to live inside it during the global flood for a year whereas Yu 禹 had to labour 13 years to divert the flood water of Huang He 黃河 (Yellow River) to stop the flood; his father (Gun 鯀) before him laboured 9 years but failed resulting been executed by the emperor. The timeline of the respective settlements, events and floods do not tally. Hangdi and Miao tribes settled in “China” centuries before the bible flood. Flooding in China occurred during Huangdi time up to Yu and continued up to this day.

T'ien Kan or Tiāngān 天干 is commonly known as Heavenly Stems and can be explained in details in Feng Shui Elementary Blog: http://sgforums.com/...s/344059?page=3 and Celestial stem from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia..../Celestial_stem.

Some look-alike “drawings/symbols” characters from Southern Mesopotamian’s clay tokens & cuneiform compared with ancient Chinese writing characters does not prove anything especially when the look-alike words have different meanings; for example:

The character of 米 is dingir to a Sumerian meaning goddess but to a Chinese is the word for rice (mee).

A horizontal stroke or dash () (yei) to the Chinese means one (1) but I have no idea what it meant to a Sumerian.

But if one tilts the horizontal dash to a vertical position (│), the Chinese meaning of the word is not one (1) but the number; 10 (shi) (ten). Again I have no idea what it stood for by the Sumerian.

The ancient Chinese word “X” “kuei” mentioned by Hales in chart 2 meant the number 5 (wu or five) but the Sumerian word without the feet at the ends of the cross with 878 is not the exact copy of Chinese “X”. As usual, the author did not say “cross 878” meant but “cross 878” to present Chinese is the other number; 4 (four).

Let have another example “chia” (┼) meaning 7 (seven) in ancient Chinese but 10 (ten) in present Chinese but no idea again what it meant to the Sumerian.

So in what way, Kiang Kang-hu pointed out in 1935, the names of these characters "are unintelligible in the Chinese language”? What are intelligible in the Chinese language according to him?

Each civilization developed his primitive form of writing characters and to distort his culture to justify for one gains and self interest is morally wrong.

Here are some websites where one can compare whether or not the Sumerian influence the Chinese on their writing:
http://en.wikipedia....hinese_numerals
http://www.gap-syste...n_numerals.html
http://www.ancientsc...m/sumerian.html

Lastly, a quote from “The invention of writing” http://pandora.cii.w...ls/Writing2.htm

“The origins of Chinese writing are obscure and debated. Some people believe that the rebus principle was borrowed through the trade routes from Sumeria to China--which would be an example of stimulus diffusion. There is no direct evidence for this, although there was contact through western China. Many believe that the ancient Chinese hit upon the writing principle completely independently”. Unquote.

(II) http://www.arky.org/.../misc/aclsc.htm titled “Ancient Chinese Language Supports Creation”

The website opens with “the ancient Chinese served a single creator god known as "Shang Ti"
“Ancient Chinese writing consisted of a series of word pictures or pictographs, which combined simpler features to express an idea or concept. The symbol for Shang Ti (God) is a combination of the symbol for emperor and the symbol for heaven (or above)…” Unquote

上 + 帝 = 上帝
heavenly + emperor = Shang Ti (God)
Oh, such a difficult equation to derive at!

G + O + D = GOD
or
King + Richard + England = King Richard of England … Oh so clever of me! But wait a minute, which King Richard is I talking about; one or a few? There was a number of King Richard who ruled over England.

See my previous posts on Shangdi in http://www.chinahist...e/page__st__135 & http://www.chinahist...ai/page__st__75 .

Other Chinese characters mentioned in http://www.arky.org/.../misc/aclsc.htm that attempt to relate the forms of Chinese characters to ideas from the Book of Genesis are fully answered in “Talkorgins” website: http://talkorigins.o...c/CG/CG101.html and associated websites:
http://www.raccoonbe...r/chinchar.html : Do Chinese Characters Tell Us Something About Genesis?
http://www.raccoonbe...chcreation.html : Part 2 - The Creation
http://www.raccoonbe...har/cheden.html : Part 3 - The Garden of Eden
http://www.raccoonbe...har/chfall.html : Part 4 - The Fall
http://www.raccoonbe...ar/chflood.html : Part 5 - The Flood
http://www.raccoonbe...ar/chbabel.html : Part 6 - The Tower of Babel
http://groups.google...e90040eb?hl=en : Inquiry regarding the mythical barge ('Noah's ark')

Edited by Old Man, 19 September 2011 - 08:51 AM.


#149 Old Man

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:54 PM


On the other hand, the Bible says nothing about Noah having a great-grandson named Sin. It only lists the 'Sinites' as one of the peoples descended from Noah's grandson Canaan. Nothing more. So any attempt at linking them with the Chinese just because of a coincidental similarity between 'Sinites' and 'Sinitic' is just inviting ridicule. As a Christian, I grimace whenever I see such sloppy interpretations of the Bible.




Glad to hear from a Christian acknowledging the bible says nothing about Noah having a great-grandson named Sin (or Seni).

Many non-Christian Chinese feel with disgust when reading the many of articles posted in the webs claiming Sin (or Seni) and Noah with sloppy misleading propaganda and conspiracy theories toward the Chinese?

Yes, the Bible only mentions “Sinites” on two occurrences:In http://www.thefullwiki.org/Canaan_%28Bible%29 website:

“Canaan is a Biblical figure who, according to the Old Testament, was the son of Ham and the grandson of the patriarch Noah. The Book of Genesis states that the Canaanites, a people who mostly occupied modern-day Israel, were descendants of this Canaan. Canaan fathered the Phoenicians through his son Sidon, and the Hittites through his son Heth. The Bible also says that he fathered the Jebusites, Hivites, Arkites, Girgashites, Zemarites, Amorites, Sinites, Arvadites, and Hamathites.” Unquote

If we look further into another website: Ham (son of Noah) palemonium.wiki.zoho.com ›: on the subject ofIdentifications based on Jasher”:

“Some of the names of Ham's descendants in the list below do not appear anywhere in the Bible, but rather originated from the mediaeval rabbinic work, the Book of Jasher. Among the ethnic groups various modern authors have attempted to link to Ham's children include:Because of the Book of Jasher: chapter 7, many non-Christians including most Christians believe Sin (or Seni) was son of Canaan and was mentioned in the Bible.

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This old man may be silly but not senile.

#150 YummYakitori

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:05 AM

Hello guys. Actually I think that in real life, why would Adam and Eve be in Jewish or Chinese land or anywhere else? The oldest bones have been found in Africa so in my perspective, I think they were in Africa.

But perhaps the oldest bones in Africa cannot really prove anything. There may be even older bones waiting to be excavated in China or anywhere else.

Speaking scientifically, Adam and Eve is probably just a Christian myth that they believe in. Every religion has their different views. :)

I personally follow Buddhism and don't believe in this myth. If the oldest bones were to be found in China one day, me likes :D

Personally, I think there are only several countries which are possibly the place where Adam and Eve appeared. Here they are.

1. China (For it has 5000 years of rich history)
2. Africa (Again, oldest human bones found)
3. Egypt (Oldest civilization in history)
4. Arctic (It may be arctic in modern day, but perhaps long ago it was somewhere closer to the equator and warm, probably here are human bones here waiting to be excavated)

5. Antarctic (It may be Antarctic in modern day, but perhaps long ago it was somewhere closer to the equator and warmer, bones here waiting to be excavated)
6. North Korea (Communist state, alot of things yet to be uncovered)
7. Cuba (Communist state)
8. Russia (It's land is so big, I'm sure these bones are hiding somewhere. And there are rumors saying that a hole dug in Siberia emits loud cries from hell and flaming tongues lashing out)

These are just what I think.

Буурэг дэрсэнд уурэглэсэн бужин туулай нь ч амгалан Булээн нууранд нь ганганалдсан хотон шувууд нь ч амгалан Буувэй санаа нь ивлэсэн Бусгуй сэптгэл нь ч амгалан хонхон дуутай бойтгийг нь Цэцэг унсэх нь энхрийхэн хöгöн горхины урсгалд нь Цэнгэг хараахай зуггуйхэн Хиртэшгуй ариухан дагшинд нь Монголын узэсгэлэн яруухан




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