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Koreans and Vietnamese


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#31 Guest_Conan the destroyer_*

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:07 PM

Anyway, in all honesty. Every Chinese dynasty has suffered defeats and victories. They suffered many defeats against koguryo, and won many victories to. What matters is who was left standing, Tang or koguryo? although that may be a bit of a stupid comment, considering that Silla was left standing.

Edited by Conan the destroyer, 08 July 2005 - 01:08 PM.


#32 bhchao

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 01:19 PM

The Tang defeated a numerically superior Paekche/Japanese naval fleet at the battle of kum river. And scored a major victory in the battle of an shih. I wouldn't speak so boldly my friend.


Paekche was the weakest of the three kingdoms. So it's perfectly obvious that Tang defeated a combined Paekche/Japanese fleet.

Tang cannot even defeat Koguryo on its own. It had to seek help from another Korean kingdom Silla. Three invasions by Tang Taizong all failed. Koguryo collapsed only after Silla helped Tang in a two-front war. A state facing a two-front war, just like Germany in WWII, will encounter severe difficulties in beating opponents on both flanks.

Ever heard of Silla's Hwarangdo? These warriors were highly trained in religious and military conduct, ethics, and physical training. They swam icy rivers in the coldest winters, toughened their bodies through rigorous martial arts training in the mountains, and were ruthless against enemy soldiers. Hwarangdo warriors can kill an enemy soldier or commander with one lethal flying kick. They made the Tang Chinese soldiers look like sissies in comparison.

The Hwarangdo was instrumental in Silla's victory over Tang Chinese forces.

Tang China was at the height of its foreign policy expansion in the late 7th century. Korea was the only place where Tang was not successful in subjugating during that period.

#33 nguoiVietchanhtong

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 02:15 PM

Actually, it is understandable for a Vietnam nationalist to not know his ancestry. I suggest him going to some temples in Vietnam that still homage to Great Yu. Maybe he'll learn more about his past.

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AhMan, help me out man by giving me a source or translate Great Yu in Vietnamese. Vietnam was part of Chinese dynasty before not anymore b/c they were too tough to be convinced over falsity, taxes, women, and resources were taken away, dedicated to the Chinese for no reason.

#34 Gubook Janggoon

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 10:38 PM

Ever heard of Silla's Hwarangdo? These warriors were highly trained in religious and military conduct, ethics, and physical training. They swam icy rivers in the coldest winters, toughened their bodies through rigorous martial arts training in the mountains, and were ruthless against enemy soldiers. Hwarangdo warriors can kill an enemy soldier or commander with one lethal flying kick. They made the Tang Chinese soldiers look like sissies in comparison.

The Hwarangdo was instrumental in Silla's victory over Tang Chinese forces.

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Hwarangdo, means way of the Hwarang, I think you mean the Hwarang themselves.

I think it's pretty much a video game myth that the Hwarang were warriors. It's a state myth that they were like the Samurai.

The Hwarang was basically boyscouts, where they picked the prettiest boys, usually from noble lines, and taught them art and martial arts.

Not to say the Hwarang didn't fight though. They were Uber patriots and often volenteered to fight in Shilla's wars. A lot were warriors, like General Kim Yushin, but other's were statesmen and religious leaders.
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#35 kaixin

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 01:18 AM

Earlier Chinese dynasties such as the Han, Wei and Jin had no problems fighting Koguryo. In fact, Jin had burned the Koguryo capital to the ground twice. People of the Koguryo kingdom got toughened through these experiences and learned Chinese methods of warfare. This combined with their savage, wild spirit made them tough fighters.

#36 Gubook Janggoon

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 01:39 AM

  This combined with their savage, wild spirit made them tough fighters.

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Savage and wild? Where'd you get this?
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#37 AhMan

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 11:23 AM

I think we all stereotype that Chinese soldiers were not as tough as Korean/Japanese. This is understandable. Most invading army consisted of drafted soldiers. And the warfare of the 3 kingdoms still lasted until the Qing: the generals charged forward and the soldiers follow them.
It seems apparent that ancient Chinese neglected the common soldiers. There were very few incidents in China history where the general really cared about his soldiers' lives (notable exceptions are WuQi and LuMeng, may the latter's was likely to be product of duplication). Chinese focused much more on strategy and the role of the leader. There were a few incidents which an army of a few could cause damage to a greater army (like Ganning') but that was not based on proper training, it's spirit bolstering instead.
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#38 AhMan

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Posted 09 July 2005 - 11:25 AM

Temple of Great Yu is located in Shaoxing, Zhejiang. If you have chance visit the temple. Yue kings claimed to be descedant of Yu when he summoned vassals in HuiJi mountain.
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#39 DomaHwang

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:11 AM

Ever heard of Silla's Hwarangdo? These warriors were highly trained in religious and military conduct, ethics, and physical training. They swam icy rivers in the coldest winters, toughened their bodies through rigorous martial arts training in the mountains, and were ruthless against enemy soldiers. Hwarangdo warriors can kill an enemy soldier or commander with one lethal flying kick. They made the Tang Chinese soldiers look like sissies in comparison.

The Hwarangdo was instrumental in Silla's victory over Tang Chinese forces.

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Hwarango was not so strong as you think, I would give credit to Koguryo army in terms of strength. In terms of population at the time, Silla was smaller than Baekjae. The only point is the Kaya (Karakguk) was the centre of iron production and Silla got it, then Silla became strong.
To my eyes, Tang was suffering rebellion in Koguryo region. It is another reason as well as Hwarang.

Edited by DomaHwang, 12 July 2005 - 10:15 AM.


#40 Viet Chinese King

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 09:14 PM

do you know Vietnamese's art of war, hehehe, i 'm sure you don't know it's, if u feel easy to invade another people, u will be an underestimate the enemy man

#41 Yizhimei

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 10:23 AM

Hmm, in my opinion, Vietnam is quite easy for China to invade. The Chinese can invade Vietnam anytime they want (and they really made it several times). They just can't control that land and population after the invasion, and that's the problem.
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#42 caocao74

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 11:24 AM

Hmm, in my opinion, Vietnam is quite easy for China to invade. The Chinese can invade Vietnam anytime they want (and they really made it several times). They just can't control that land and population after the invasion, and that's the problem.

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A general condition in warfare; often much easier to conquer a land through invasion rather than to dominate it through any subsequent occupation (we don't even need to refer to the past to see that).
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#43 nguoiVietchanhtong

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:43 AM

Hmm, in my opinion, Vietnam is quite easy for China to invade. The Chinese can invade Vietnam anytime they want (and they really made it several times). They just can't control that land and population after the invasion, and that's the problem.

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Wanna controlling Vietnam. It's easy. Just recognize their heritage and cultures, same as the Cantonese. Don't take the tax and feed it to the Government in the North and make people have jobs and good lives to live. In the past, they were forced to give up the Yue culture and custom, which did not make sense in controlling.

#44 Guest_brashboy_*

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 09:29 AM

Being located between two superpowers, Korea is in a more vulnerable situation. I think Korea preferred being a vassal to China to protect itself.

Meanwhile China has never been able to regain dominance over Vietnam after the first thousand yeas of rule. This is due to Vietnam being on the far southern edge of the empire. Most Chinese dynasties based the capital in the North and more concerned about affairs in the North. The most elite armies would be in the North. When the northern borders are secure and the empire is strong, they would send a force into Vietnam. Usually the invasion is under the pretense of supporting a Vietnamese faction or to punish Vietnamese for some type of subordination. Initally they would overpower the Vietnamese forces, but the Vietnamese would withdraw and conduct guerilla activities or tatics that bewilder their northern opponents. After suffering a major loss, the Chinese would retreat across the border and call it a victory when the Vietnamese king agrees to resume tributes to the empire.

Edited by brashboy, 11 September 2005 - 09:31 AM.


#45 nguoiVietchanhtong

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Posted 12 September 2005 - 12:04 AM

Being located between two superpowers, Korea is in a more vulnerable situation.  I think Korea preferred being a vassal to China to protect itself.

Meanwhile China has never been able to regain dominance over Vietnam after the first thousand yeas of rule. This is due to Vietnam being on the far southern edge of the empire. Most Chinese dynasties based the capital in the North and more concerned about affairs in the North. The most elite armies would be in the North. When the northern borders are secure and the empire is strong, they would send a  force into Vietnam.  Usually the invasion is under the pretense of supporting a Vietnamese faction or to punish Vietnamese for some type of subordination.  Initally they would overpower the Vietnamese forces, but the Vietnamese would withdraw  and conduct guerilla activities or tatics that bewilder their northern opponents.  After suffering a major loss, the Chinese would retreat across the border and call it a victory when the Vietnamese king agrees to resume tributes to the empire.

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This sounds very convincing. The Vietnamese population at that time did not agree with the conversion of becoming Han because They did not like with the idea of glorifying only the Hans only.




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