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Did Wing Chun originate from Yunnan or Fujian?


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#1 kaixin

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 02:23 AM

Wing Chun kungfu that was popularized by the late Bruce Lee. He says his sifu (master) Yip Man took the martial art from Guangzhou and spread it to Hong Kong after 1949 revolution and civil war. But, the legend says that it started from a nun (Yim Wing Chun) who practiced it by imitating crane movements in Yunnan. But, some people say Wing Chun is no different from other Shaolin derived southern kungfu boxing styles. They claim it is likely from Fujian too.

Which province did it really originate from?

#2 Moping4U

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:14 PM

Wing Chun kungfu that was popularized by the late Bruce Lee.  He says his sifu (master) Yip Man took the martial art from Guangzhou and spread it to Hong Kong after 1949 revolution and civil war.  But, the legend says that it started from a nun (Yim Wing Chun) who practiced it by imitating crane movements in Yunnan.  But, some people say Wing Chun is no different from other Shaolin derived southern kungfu boxing styles.  They claim it is likely from Fujian too.

Which province did it really originate from?

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Ng Mui, Jee Seen, Hung Hei Guan, 5 ancestors, etc. all claimed to be from the Southern Shaolin temple in Potian, Fukien. So I guess you can say that all if not most southern Shaolin styles came from Fukien. Though they all prospered in Guangzhou.

#3 Wujiang

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 10:21 PM

Ng Mui, Jee Seen, Hung Hei Guan, 5 ancestors, etc. all claimed to be from the Southern Shaolin temple in Potian, Fukien. So I guess you can say that all if not most southern Shaolin styles came from Fukien.  Though they all prospered in Guangzhou.

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One problem about that theory is that there is no convincing evidence that Southern Temple ever existed. Neither of the people you talked about ever claimed themselves to be from Southern Shaolin. It was people after them that said it.
As for the 5 ancestors, it is extremely unlikely that they were monks at all. If you actaully look at their names, non of them were that of monks.

Edited by Wujiang, 12 July 2005 - 10:21 PM.

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#4 Moping4U

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 08:43 PM

One problem about that theory is that there is no convincing evidence that Southern Temple ever existed. Neither of the people you talked about ever claimed themselves to be from Southern Shaolin. It was people after them that said it.
As for the 5 ancestors, it is extremely unlikely that they were monks at all. If you actaully look at their names, non of them were that of monks.

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true

#5 Mok

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:01 AM

Wing Chun is the name of a county in Fujian (Fukien). Ng Mui may have studied at Southern Shaolin but I would contend that Wing Chun originated in Guangdong because of the roots of Yim Wing Chun, the girl, not Wing Chun, the county.

I dunno if Yim Wing Chun is related to my family/clan or not, but what I do know is that she and her dad are originally from Guangdong. Ng Mui may have formulated the art, but it was the girl that perfected it.

But that's strictly my interpretation.
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#6 Wei Feng

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 02:07 PM

According to the legend

The legend
There are many versions of the Wing-Chun Kung-Fu legend. They are all quite similar. The essence of the stories is identical. The story below is the version that is commonly used by the Association.

Wing-Chun Kung-Fu is a Kung-Fu from a Southern Chinese village called Fatshan. Originally, it was developed at a Buddhist Shaolin Monastery. The exact translation of Wing-Chun is "spring blossom

According to the legend, the system was developed by a nun who escaped from this Shaolin Monastery. All this happened after the authorities of the day decided to demolish the monastery and kill all inhabitants. Only a few monks and a nun, Ng Mui survived.

When the escaped nun Ng Mui was wandering about the country she observed a fight between a snake and crane. Looking at the battle made her think. She combined her knowledge of the tradition Shaolin Kung-Fu with the effective movements of the animals.

Later Ng Mui met a young lady called Yim Wing Chun. Yim Wing Chun was forced to marry the local gangleader. She agreed to marry him, on one condition: the gangleader had to defeat her in a fight. After intensive training by Ng Mui, Yim Wing Chun fought against the gangleader, and managed to defeat him.

Edited by Wei Feng, 22 July 2005 - 02:18 PM.


#7 BlueDragonMagik

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 03:55 PM

I read some where that many years ago, there was a rivalry between practitioners of Choy Li Fut and Wing Chun. ... Is that true? ...
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#8 Wujiang

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 09:10 PM

When the escaped nun Ng Mui was wandering about the country she observed a fight between a snake and crane. Looking at the battle made her think. She combined her knowledge of the tradition Shaolin Kung-Fu with the effective movements of the animals.

Actually, it was Yim who observed the snake and crane fight. But her ideas were further refined by Ng Mui

Later Ng Mui met a young lady called Yim Wing Chun. Yim Wing Chun was forced to marry the local gangleader. She agreed to marry him, on one condition: the gangleader had to defeat her in a fight. After intensive training by Ng Mui, Yim Wing Chun fought against the gangleader, and managed to defeat him.

Complete fiction.

I read some where that  many years ago, there was a rivalry between practitioners of Choy Li Fut and Wing Chun.  ... Is that true?  ...

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Plenty in Hong Kong. These two systems were known for the countless violent events. not even the Hung Gar (which was pretty much loaded with bad guys) had that much problem
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#9 BlueDragonMagik

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 08:22 PM

Plenty in Hong Kong. These two systems were known for the countless violent events. not even the Hung Gar (which was pretty much loaded with bad guys) had that much problem

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Violent events? ... Wow! ... Who was winning the majority of fights? ... Was there ever fights between the Hung Gar boys and anyone else?
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#10 Wujiang

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 12:50 PM

Violent events?  ... Wow!  ... Who was winning the majority of fights?  ...  Was there ever fights between the Hung Gar boys and anyone else?

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Depends on the source. CLF people said they won more, WC people said they won more.

Quite alot. You have to remember that 20-30 years ago, the CMA community in HK was insperable from triad societies. The line between the two is actually quite blurred. Hung Gar among them. Gang warfare and martial arts school clashes was a horrible mix. Although the name Wing Chun and Choi Lay Fut have always been the worse because these seem to be the two styles that attracts the most Gang members to join. My guess is because other styles takes more time and patiance to learn and use. Traits not common among gang members

The majority of masters were not gang member. But their students often were. And even those that are not were dragged into this war because they have to defend their school when one of their own gets hurt by a student from rival school who just happens to be in a rival gang

Edited by Wujiang, 25 July 2005 - 12:52 PM.

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#11 CARDINAL009

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 09:38 PM

Used to hear those stories of CLF players vs. WC players.

Q: Most of the fights were open hands, not were weapons-driven.
Any confirmation on that pov?
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#12 Moping4U

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Posted 25 July 2005 - 11:56 PM

yes most were hand to hand fights(even with a ref), though there was one battle incident between Hung Gar group(Lam Jo's) vs. a Choy Li Fut group during a festival where weapons were involved. Alot of these fights take place on the rooftops.

#13 CARDINAL009

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 05:54 PM

yes most were hand to hand fights(even with a ref), though there was one battle incident between Hung Gar group(Lam Jo's) vs. a Choy Li Fut group during a festival where weapons were involved. Alot of these fights take place on the rooftops.

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Q: Can you tell me more about this incident?
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#14 Moping4U

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Posted 27 July 2005 - 05:19 PM

Q:  Can you tell me more about this incident?

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Its on this site here: http://www.hungkuen....le-bigfight.htm

#15 CARDINAL009

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Posted 28 July 2005 - 02:00 PM

Its on this site here: http://www.hungkuen....le-bigfight.htm

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Thks!
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