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Yi Guan Dao


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#1 MengTzu

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 01:38 AM

I was looking for info for Yi Guan Dao, and I'm extremely surprised to find that one major center (perhaps THE center) for international (or just US) Yi Guan Dao is almost in my back yard (figuratively speaking.) It's like a ten minute drive from my house. Wow. Can somebody give me more info about this religion?

#2 urofpersia

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Posted 26 July 2005 - 02:35 PM

I was looking for info for Yi Guan Dao, and I'm extremely surprised to find that one major center (perhaps THE center) for international (or just US) Yi Guan Dao is almost in my back yard (figuratively speaking.)  It's like a ten minute drive from my house.  Wow.  Can somebody give me more info about this religion?

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There are many official YiGuanDao websites which can give you more detailed and accurate information.

Basically YiGuanDao is generally regarded as a syncretic fath where they try to show that many famous religious persons are trying to teach the same path or Dao. They believe they have the spiritual lineage to help people open the pathway to practice Dao.

They believe humans being should follow the path of Dao to achieve enlightenment and return to Heaven. They advocate ovo-vegetarianism as they believe all animals are sentient or have souls but there are many YiGuanDao members who are not vegetarians, it its technically a choice.

I tend to class them among the 'rational' religions, where adherents are converted through teachings and enlightenment through rational reasoning. They are also much less into proselytising, and believe in fate bringing you into the faith. They are also happy to discuss most aspects of their religion, but a small but important part of their teachings known as the 三宝 are only revealed to members.

I am not a believer myself (I am an atheist) but I strongly urge you to seek them out and listen to some of their talks. They are strictly non-racist or bigot and welcome everyone. I tend to have very good impression of the ones I met in Singapore. I reserve my judgement on some the ones I met in Taiwan. :D

They have branches everywhere including here in Singapore and is one of the fastest growing religions I know of.
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#3 NtGuild

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Posted 26 December 2005 - 09:42 PM

persia, ure the first person to say something good about Iguantao as far as I've seen. What i have seen were mostly buddhists criticising Iguantao. :)

I am from Iguantao personally, and yes I am a vegetarian. I converted to vegetarian in less than 2 months after coming close to Iguantao. Im 17, and I got into Iguantao when I was 16. Yep, no force. I converted voluntarily.

The basis of I-Kuan Tao is rooted in Chinese traditions, with teachings emphasizing traditional values such as family, honor, respect and moderation. It is no exaggeration to call I-Kuan Tao the definitive and authentic Chinese form of spirituality.

To the Chinese, the Tao is simply the name we give to that which is spiritually divine. In that perspective, the various sages throughout history express the Tao in their own ways. Confucius studied the Tao to derive his philosophy, which had a profound impact not only in China, but also other Asian lands. The Buddha Sakyamuni taught the Tao in his own fashion, and impacted not only Asia but also the world. All of these sages are embraced by I-Kuan Tao.

Today, 2,500 years after the time of Lao Tzu, the teachings about the Tao have become the central tenets of I-Kuan Tao. These teachings describe the Tao as the ultimate principle beyond all principles and the ultimate power beyond all powers.

I-Kuan Tao asserts that the Tao is the essence and the spiritual truth behind all religions, philosophies, and schools of thought. It is also the source of everything, the driving mechanism of evolution, and the life force of the universe. The specialized name for this concept is Lao Mu, the personified manifestation of the nurturing, life-affirming, and creative power of the universe.



Here is a fab website for Iguantao.

http://truetao.org/ikuantao/home.htm

#4 somechineseperson

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:45 PM

Where/what is the justification for I-Guan-Dao? One cannot simply believe something because it sounds good. How do you know your principle is "the ultimate principle beyond all principles"?

What is the basis of your belief system? Philosophical arguments? Empirical evidence? Divine revelation? What?

While you claim to be "the definitive and authentic Chinese form of spirituality", in reality I-Guan-Dao is more like a New Age movement with little history or tradition.

You seem to be making some pretty bold claims with insufficient justification to do so.

#5 somechineseperson

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:55 PM

I used to be really into syncretism myself. One of the fatal problems with syncretism is it is not responsible to simply consider all of the different religions as "essentially the same", because essentially they are not the same, there are many profound differences.

#6 MengTzu

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 01:44 PM

Where/what is the justification for I-Guan-Dao? One cannot simply believe something because it sounds good. How do you know your principle is "the ultimate principle beyond all principles"?

What is the basis of your belief system? Philosophical arguments? Empirical evidence? Divine revelation? What?

While you claim to be "the definitive and authentic Chinese form of spirituality", in reality I-Guan-Dao is more like a New Age movement with little history or tradition.

You seem to be making some pretty bold claims with insufficient justification to do so.


It appears that their idea of the ultimate principle, Tao, is derived from the similiar logic that you, a Theist, derived that God is the ultimate principle of the universe. So I don't see any need of justification here beyond a simple recognition of the ontological ground of being.

Beyond this, however, your question might be quite valid. One can indeed inquire the basis for I Guan Tao's claim regarding enlightenment, returning to Heaven, and the Three Treasures. I would also grant that it is arguably an authentic form of Chinese spirituality.

Overall an interesting religion.

#7 somechineseperson

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 07:17 PM

Beyond this, however, your question might be quite valid. One can indeed inquire the basis for I Guan Tao's claim regarding enlightenment, returning to Heaven, and the Three Treasures. I would also grant that it is arguably an authentic form of Chinese spirituality.


That's indeed my point.

Also, it does not appear that Yi-Guan-Dao has a long history, compared with other Chinese religious traditions, such as Classical Daoism, Zen Buddhism or Jing Jiao.

#8 urofpersia

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 11:55 PM

Also, it does not appear that Yi-Guan-Dao has a long history, compared with other Chinese religious traditions, such as Classical Daoism, Zen Buddhism or Jing Jiao.


I am not a believer myself but what I do know is that yiguandao claims lineage from the older religions in the sense Christianity claims lineage from Judaism. While the formation of yiguandao may have been recent, surely that can't be held against them. Christianity was at one time new as well and regarded as heretical. There is a lot more to yiguandao than what NtGuild has written, if you are interested in religions I do recommend learning more about yiguandao, as Mengtzu said it is a very interesting one.

Beyond this, however, your question might be quite valid. One can indeed inquire the basis for I Guan Tao's claim regarding enlightenment, returning to Heaven, and the Three Treasures. I would also grant that it is arguably an authentic form of Chinese spirituality.


I am sure NTGuild or some other yiguandao 道亲 can give us an interesting answer and I do look forward to hearing it! I do know part of it but can't say I remember much and certainly not the details. Actually in my limited experience I actually think yiguandao is more universal rather than a specifically chinese form of spirituality as you put, but I think this very much depends on one's interpretation. The outward Chinese character may have more to do with some of the rituals and rites which is very chinese and use of Chinese religious imagery. Also yiguandao here in the Chinese dominated territories emphasis a lot on confucian teachings to their members as a code of conduct, at least that is my impression.
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#9 NtGuild

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 02:53 AM

Beyond this, however, your question might be quite valid. One can indeed inquire the basis for I Guan Tao's claim regarding enlightenment, returning to Heaven, and the Three Treasures. I would also grant that it is arguably an authentic form of Chinese spirituality.

--------


About this, this will be more discussive if you guys believe in enlightenment and heaven. Otherwise, it is quite difficult to continue. It is all down to whether you believe or not. :) And I dont really go in depth for evidence for heaven and stuff. If you believe, there is no need for evidence. There are million of people believe in God, but where on earth do you find people saying 'Ive seen the God and taken a photo with Him' ?

What pulls me into YiGuantao is the friendly part about it. Whenever I go to its temple, the people there are super friendly, in the sense that they greet you politely and asked you whether have you eaten and stuff. I have one old man bending like 90 degrees to give me a towel to wipe my hands. I find it quite unbelievable.

What yiguantao teaches basically in laymen term: "How to be a better person". What the classes teach are like how to be more polite, generous, how to cool down your temper, how to treat others fairly,etc. You might find it quite simple a topic, but that's what we are lacking! Buddha speaks of equality 2500 yrs ago, but what have we seen today? Race inequality in USA, income inequality in phillipinnes and gender inequality in India/Saudi Arabia. What humans need today are seriously, foundations of being a person. And thats what i learn in those classes, to find back the root of being a person. That's why we emphasis a lot on confucius teachings. It is rejected by the West, therefore you could see murder,rape,disrespectful news everyday. Even a professor, PHD cant teach you how to be a better person. This is the basis of our teachings, no transformation no spells/curses or whatsoever.

Yes little history no doubt. However, Our lineage goes back to Buddha. After buddha, the lineage goes for 28 generation to Da Mo, and he went over to China and passed it all the way to our 18th patriach, Shi Zhun Shi Mu. They open the ritual formally to all citizens who want to attain Tao in 1930. You might think, is Tao so easily attainable? Of course not.

In ancient times, cultivaters cultivate before they attain Tao. But with different times now, we in yiguantao attain Tao BEFORE we culrivate. But why we can attain tao so easily? It is all down to your past lives cultivation, ancestors's merits and Buddha's affinity. It is not as simple as how you think. It can go back many lifetime.

Then your next question, so every1 can attain Tao? Yes, everyone can attain Tao, but why are there so many who haven't? Because of the 3 factors i mentioned. If You dont cultivate enough in previous livetimes, when someone ask you to come yiguantao temple, you would reject offhand and may even criticise. This is the repelling factor, and therefore you can't attain Tao yet.

I hope i answer some of your questions and cleared some doubts :D

#10 somechineseperson

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:16 AM

About this, this will be more discussive if you guys believe in enlightenment and heaven. Otherwise, it is quite difficult to continue. It is all down to whether you believe or not. :) And I dont really go in depth for evidence for heaven and stuff. If you believe, there is no need for evidence. There are million of people believe in God, but where on earth do you find people saying 'Ive seen the God and taken a photo with Him' ?


Yet the existence of God can be proven using logical argument. However, we cannot know much about God just from reason alone.

It's certainly not just a matter of "if one believes, then it is true". For instance, one might really believe in Santa Claus, but that does not make Santa real.

#11 naruwan

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 09:41 AM

Yet the existence of God can be proven using logical argument. However, we cannot know much about God just from reason alone.

It's certainly not just a matter of "if one believes, then it is true". For instance, one might really believe in Santa Claus, but that does not make Santa real.


true.

but all religion are created by human. That means if there can only be ONE religion that is absolutely true, then that reders hundreds and thousands of religion and branches of religion FALSE.

I am taking Buddhist lessons but I am not a believer. Because I tend to think of religion as a tool for social order. Therefore, it really doesn't matter which religion is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH as long as it does you good. On the other hand, since I beleive NO RELIGION IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, that renders some forceful religions that oppresses others in the name of religion ABSOLUTE FALSE to me.
mudanin kata mudanin kata. kata siki-a kata siki-a. muhaiv ludun muhaiv ludun. kanta sipal tas-tas kanta sipal tas-tas. kanta sipal tunuh kanta sipal tunuh. sikavilun vini daingaz sikavilun vini daingaz.

Former hansioux

#12 somechineseperson

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 01:16 PM

true.

but all religion are created by human. That means if there can only be ONE religion that is absolutely true, then that reders hundreds and thousands of religion and branches of religion FALSE.

I am taking Buddhist lessons but I am not a believer. Because I tend to think of religion as a tool for social order. Therefore, it really doesn't matter which religion is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH as long as it does you good. On the other hand, since I beleive NO RELIGION IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, that renders some forceful religions that oppresses others in the name of religion ABSOLUTE FALSE to me.


Are all religions created by humans? Only if you take the atheist viewpoint. Abrahamic-Zoroastrian religions claim to be divinely revealed, so do certain branches of religious Daoism. Even the Confucian Classics state that certain teachings come from Heaven and Confucius is a teacher sent by Heaven.

#13 Borjigin Ayurbarwada

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:02 PM

appears that their idea of the ultimate principle, Tao, is derived from the similiar logic that you


I want to ask you, where did you find the statement that Dao is the ultimate principle? This seem to be a heavy western(includeing Hindu) centric view of the Way(Dao). The ZhuangZi gives quite a good description of the way in Daoist philosophy. There is no such thing as an ultimate reality beyond this world, Dao is everywhere and already present, Humans are living in it, and every thing, including excrement has Dao in it. The whole cycle of the Universe and everything that changes with it IS Dao. It is a law, not an entity or a state of experience. You are already with Dao, there is no ultimate to speak of that transcend whats already present, its just that you have to realize you are already with Dao. Attaining the way means you realize the truth of the universe.

#14 Borjigin Ayurbarwada

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Posted 04 January 2006 - 05:14 PM

"Yet the existence of God can be proven using logical argument. "

Umm, no it can't or else it would be a law. But its not. And the only people that buys the "prove" aer people who believe in it to begin with. You can't prove something with baseless assumptions, the only scientific prove is something that can be observed.
BTW, I can also use "logical" argument to argue for the supremacy of Dao, and ZhuangZi did so a few thousand years ago at the same time proving that its not something intelligent.
Besides your "prove" only talks about an ultimate, that ultimate doesn't even have to be an inteliggent entity.



Are all religions created by humans? Only if you take the atheist viewpoint. Abrahamic-Zoroastrian religions claim to be divinely revealed, so do certain branches of religious Daoism. Even the Confucian Classics state that certain teachings come from Heaven and Confucius is a teacher sent by Heaven.

or a rather rationalistic view that does not lean toward anything and weigh the evidence based on probability.


Also, it does not appear that Yi-Guan-Dao has a long history, compared with other Chinese religious traditions, such as Classical Daoism, Zen Buddhism or Jing Jiao.


And? All religion comes into the world sometime in history, people that are attached to time does not see this. Its odd that whenever there is a new religion that spawn up today, people think its a new age fad or a fraud and heretical cult. Its just that science today is advanced enough to consider most of these things which also occured in the past as nothing but unproven hypothesis.

Where/what is the justification for I-Guan-Dao? One cannot simply believe something because it sounds good. How do you know your principle is "the ultimate principle beyond all principles"?

What is the basis of your belief system? Philosophical arguments? Empirical evidence? Divine revelation? What?

While you claim to be "the definitive and authentic Chinese form of spirituality", in reality I-Guan-Dao is more like a New Age movement with little history or tradition.

You seem to be making some pretty bold claims with insufficient justification to do so.



Lets use the excat argument you give.
Where/what is the justification for Any RELIGION? One cannot simply believe something because it sounds good. How do you know your principle is "the ultimate principle beyond all principles"?
Even if we are to play with your "logic" which you seem to be addicted to and cannot change, what make you think that just because God exist, its the Christian God thats true? In fact historical EVIDENCE show that other religions has far more emprirical evidence.

#15 MengTzu

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Posted 05 January 2006 - 11:13 PM

I want to ask you, where did you find the statement that Dao is the ultimate principle? This seem to be a heavy western(includeing Hindu) centric view of the Way(Dao).


Lixue or Neo-Confucianism does give such an interpretation of "Dao," if I'm not mistaken.




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