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How do other Chinese see Chinese Indonesians?


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#76 MengTzu

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Posted 12 September 2007 - 07:34 PM

That's right many are Western names e.g. William, Michael but in surnames I don't think any Chinese have western one.


Yes, nobody use western surname of course.


I'm surprised you guys never met Indonesian Chinese who use Western surnames. I have friend who is Indonesian Chinese -- his family adopted an Indonesian surname, but his brother chose a Western surname for himself. I have another friend who is part Indonesian Chinese and part Indonesian, and her mom told her to pick whatever surname she likes, and she picked a Western sounding one (this is also partly because her parents are divorced.) I'm guessing these are individuals who chose western or western-sounding surnames. I don't know of entire families that do that.

Btw, sorry I cannot tell you guys what surnames my friend's brother and my other friend took, as I don't wish to disclose their identities.

Edited by MengTzu, 12 September 2007 - 07:34 PM.


#77 christian xu

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 12:06 PM

I'm surprised you guys never met Indonesian Chinese who use Western surnames. I have friend who is Indonesian Chinese -- his family adopted an Indonesian surname, but his brother chose a Western surname for himself. I have another friend who is part Indonesian Chinese and part Indonesian, and her mom told her to pick whatever surname she likes, and she picked a Western sounding one (this is also partly because her parents are divorced.) I'm guessing these are individuals who chose western or western-sounding surnames. I don't know of entire families that do that.

Btw, sorry I cannot tell you guys what surnames my friend's brother and my other friend took, as I don't wish to disclose their identities.



My Indonesian surname is citra..hahaha... my friend just told me that citra is like an indian name, but my father choose that name because it sounds close to my chinese surname: xu/cu (ci) and just add +tra behind it.. :P
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#78 sg_han

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 07:34 AM

many indonesian chinese do this to disguise their chinese surnames
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#79 大学语文12345

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:26 AM

:arrogant^: :unsure: why?
As far as I can remember, Many Chinese were killed and many Chinese women raped in 1998 Chaos in Indonesia. After that tragedy, most of Chinese mainlanders were angered. My Chinese friends wanted to take their revenge. :icon15:
What about Chinese situation and their living condition there.

many indonesian chinese do this to disguise their chinese surnames



#80 sg_han

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 07:02 PM

:arrogant^: :unsure: why?
As far as I can remember, Many Chinese were killed and many Chinese women raped in 1998 Chaos in Indonesia. After that tragedy, most of Chinese mainlanders were angered. My Chinese friends wanted to take their revenge. :icon15:
What about Chinese situation and their living condition there.


Many mainlanders were angered but this does not help the situation as PRC did not do anything about it having adopted a neutral policy.

Despite the fact that Chinese constitute just around 3% of the Indonesia, they control a larger than proportion of the economy pie.(this is even larger prior to 1997)During the Asian currency crisis, the Rupiah collapsed and prices fluctuated.. What started as a protest against Suharto became targeted at the Chinese Indonesians as those Indonesians see the Chinese as being responsible for their suffering.

Also, throughout Suharto's rule, he created many discriminatory laws against the Chinese such as forbidding the use of Chinese names or public display of chinese characters. Chinese schools were closed and he curbed other forms of Chinese cultures such as Lion Dance/Dragon Dance/Chinese New Year.....etc
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#81 大学语文12345

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 07:50 PM

Why Chinese don't leave that land of tragedy. It's dangerous! :unsure:

Many mainlanders were angered but this does not help the situation as PRC did not do anything about it having adopted a neutral policy.

Despite the fact that Chinese constitute just around 3% of the Indonesia, they control a larger than proportion of the economy pie.(this is even larger prior to 1997)During the Asian currency crisis, the Rupiah collapsed and prices fluctuated.. What started as a protest against Suharto became targeted at the Chinese Indonesians as those Indonesians see the Chinese as being responsible for their suffering.

Also, throughout Suharto's rule, he created many discriminatory laws against the Chinese such as forbidding the use of Chinese names or public display of chinese characters. Chinese schools were closed and he curbed other forms of Chinese cultures such as Lion Dance/Dragon Dance/Chinese New Year.....etc



#82 sg_han

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:56 PM

Why Chinese don't leave that land of tragedy. It's dangerous! :unsure:



Having borned and bred in Indonesia all their life, China is but their ancestral land. In their heart, their homeland is Indonesia. How can you expect them to just move from their homeland?
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#83 Wan Ren aka Danny

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 11:21 PM

With the growing power and influence of China, soon many overseas Chinese will not have to hide themselevs with false surnames or be afraid of of ethnic oppression.

China should exert itself more in protecting their citizens and people just like the Americans, British and Germans do.

#84 sg_han

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 03:37 AM

With the growing power and influence of China, soon many overseas Chinese will not have to hide themselevs with false surnames or be afraid of of ethnic oppression.

China should exert itself more in protecting their citizens and people just like the Americans, British and Germans do.



it should but it isnt doing so!=(
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#85 fcharton

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 04:53 AM

With the growing power and influence of China, soon many overseas Chinese will not have to hide themselevs with false surnames or be afraid of of ethnic oppression.

China should exert itself more in protecting their citizens and people just like the Americans, British and Germans do.


I think China does protect her citizens abroad, just like every country does. But most Indonesian chinese, or most overseas chinese in general, are not Chinese citizens (unless I'm mistaken, I don't think China recognises dual citizenship anyway).

Now, China could decide they are her people, and intervene anyway, but this would very much qualify as "interfering into another's country's affair", something China does not want to do (you can't say in the same breath "Taiwan and Tibet are domestic affairs, I am the only judge", and "oh, but I have my say on the affairs of people of chinese descent everywhere").

And this is not what British and Americans do, afaik. The German did it for a brief period of time with their brothers of Sudetenland, the Volga, Dantzig, etc... but the world (including modern germans) does not remember fondly this era.

Francois

Edited by fcharton, 23 September 2007 - 05:31 AM.


#86 李正龍

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Posted 25 November 2007 - 01:06 PM

Having borned and bred in Indonesia all their life, China is but their ancestral land. In their heart, their homeland is Indonesia. How can you expect them to just move from their homeland?

uhm..
i quite agree with this reason..
several months ago i've read a nice statement which is written in 三馬林達市 永靖(客家)同鄉會會館/house of Yong Jing people in Samarinda, East Kalimantan, Indonesia..

中國是我們的娘家..
印尼是我們的國家..
Zhongguo is our mother's land..
Indonesia is our homeland..
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#87 red_pr!nce

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 05:26 AM

We're not Mainland Chinese or Taiwanese Chinese, but people from Chinese descent, with Chinese culture already inside us for many centuries. There's a difference between what we call as "hua ren" and "hua yi". We're "hua yi", as we're no longer Chinese citizens (both Mainland or Taiwanese). China is our ancestral land, Indonesia is our homeland. Sometimes, we visit relatives who are still living on the Mainland, although we give our loyalty to Indonesia.

many indonesian chinese do this to disguise their chinese surnames


In order to protect our surnames. :D
For example, my Indonesia surname is "Kandaka". "Kandaka" is more Indian than Chinese. The word given to disquise the "Kan" surname of Chinese origin. When we have children, we can pass the "Kan" part to their new surname.

With the growing power and influence of China, soon many overseas Chinese will not have to hide themselevs with false surnames or be afraid of of ethnic oppression.

China should exert itself more in protecting their citizens and people just like the Americans, British and Germans do.


It is already too late, I guess. Thanks for 32 years of oppression against Chinese ethnic and culture, a generation has lost their culture, although the Chinese culture in Indonesia is enjoying its revival since 2001. Even with the rise of China today, many native Indonesians start to learn Chinese language and adopt some Chinese culture for their own.

Soft power does work, but not forever.

#88 sunflower1

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 02:23 AM

i live 29 years in indonesia. i born in Pontianak, West Kalimantan (Borneo) province which i believed the most chinese like culture in indonesia.

west kalimantan have a long chinese tradition, chinese new year is one of major festival now, thanks to reformation in Gus Dur (Abdurahman Wahid) era. One of the city, Singkawang, even have their own unique Hakka dialect which is I heritage.

last november we held governor election and to all surprise the winner is the one who pair with a chinese guy for his vice governor. the guy name is Christiandy Sanjaya, he is a hakka chinese and this is really a triumph for west kalimantan chinese and i think for indonesian chinese overall.

most of chinese in this province who lived outside pontianak (its capital) are poor. just like me, our dream is to be able to imigrate to other regional like Spore (where i am right now).

or event a very unique fenomenon is many of singkawang women are married to overseas chinese, taiwan dan HK are the most popular one. they do this to change their family fate and many of this case ended up in success story.

anyone interesting in West Kalimantan can contact me since I really have a passion to spread the informations about West Kalimantan chinese to the world.

#89 sunflower1

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 02:39 AM

about surname disguise

in the era of soeharto, prior to 1980, indonesian chinese suffered a great blow because of 1969 communist party coup in indonesia. this coup cos a great victims and .... indonesian chinese become a state enemy because of communist = china campaign.

so in this era people need to disguise. the situation was really worse, even in province like west kalimantan there was a great exodus from singkawang inner area to singkawang city to avoid being slaughter by native (the dayaks). this even called ceu-nan in hakka and remain only a mouth to mouth story by older generation. (my father mother) and never come out in school book.

after 80 an, where yougner generation didnt't have a real treat any more they also don use chinese surname because most of them dont know exactly their identity. in 90 to 2000 every young couple rather name their baby :

christiano filbert, amadeus gracius etc

just because they like their child sound like western. no body consciously enough to named their baby : michael wong if their surname is wong.

but,.... in 2000 up, things going different. in 2006 there already 100+ up chinese teacher imported from mainland, and the knowledge of PinYin and mandarin already encourage young couple to named their child :

Patrick Yang if their surname is Djong (in hakka) for Yang.

so in the next era i think more indonesian chinese are head back to use 'proper' chinese surname.

Edited by jullian_bei, 09 January 2008 - 02:40 AM.


#90 overseachinese

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:53 AM

Neither do I.

Well, indirect speech: using "prefer X than work" to mean "lazy and just X" :D

Exactly. :D

Due to quality of teachers...

Mandarin is selected because of there are not only Teochew Chinese in there... And also because there is standardized Chinese in Mandarin...

Also (almost) the same reading in Mandarin.. "".

As I said, I've never seen Chinese as government official in Indonesia. And I wonder who wants? After those things happen.

:no: US living standard is very expensive in Indonesia.

IMO they push themselves to get some face among the community. :P

Anywhere outside Indonesia is OK during the chaos.

Total population of Chinese in Malaysia is very large, 33% of total. (Malaysia only have 50% Malay population)
Compare to Indonesia: a few million among 200+ millions.


Actually, we are now at 25%(2008), in terms of percentage, we dropped. Basically, we r just little bit better off from CI. To all CI happy Lunar New Year, i pray that your misery will be over bcos both(native and CI) will lose out. If wasn't bcos of the chinese, the economy of both Malaysia and Indonesia will not be that good. :charge:




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