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Early Chinese war sword


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#1 SleepingDragon

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 05:29 PM

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Can anyone tell me if this sword is actually similar to the ones used in China in the 2nd century A.D.? The creators of the sword state that it is a replica of a 2nd century Chinese war sword. Just curious...

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#2 ximen_chuixue

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 10:36 PM

Wow.. a nice sword.. U found this from which website? Hmm.. it may be it maybe no.. Chinese swords in the 1st place have alot of kind. Different kind of swords match different fighting style. A swordsman will chose a sword according to the style he use. Some swords may look replica of a certain century sword but sometimes it may not be that century kind of sword.

#3 Guest_Conan the destroyer_*

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Posted 24 September 2005 - 10:49 PM

The blade profile looks somewhat similar to the swords from warring states/Qin. But they usually have some profile taper.

Edited by Conan the destroyer, 24 September 2005 - 10:50 PM.


#4 ximen_chuixue

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 12:57 AM

Hmm.. compare to Qin and the standard chinese sword u guys think which is best? standard chinese sword is the kind we see today.. tip is a bit fexible which can be fold a bit. This sword is probably the kind of wushu sword. If i not wrong started in han dynasty?

#5 TMPikachu

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:32 AM

why would the tip be flexible? That would be terrible for thrusting.

It looks like something from Qin/Han times, but then it's pretty vague looking.
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#6 SleepingDragon

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 01:52 PM

Thanks for the answers everone.

Wow.. a nice sword.. U found this from which website? Hmm.. it may be it maybe no.. Chinese swords in the 1st place have alot of kind. Different kind of swords match different fighting style. A swordsman will chose a sword according to the style he use. Some swords may look replica of a certain century sword but sometimes it may not be that century kind of sword.


The sword is from museumreplicas.com, but I think the site might be down at the moment. I get catalogs in the mail from the company, they have good products..

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#7 Yang Zongbao

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 02:59 PM

There is no such thing as a Standard Chinese War Sword.
It's called a Jian.
Basically the same thing, that has developed over time to look different. But essentially made for the same function- cutting and thrusting human flesh.

And if the tip folds, it's not considered a sword anymore. You're right, it's a wushu piece. But not a sword, because it cannot cut, and it cannot thrust.
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#8 CARDINAL009

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 04:14 PM

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Can anyone tell me if this sword is actually similar to the ones used in China in the 2nd century A.D.? The creators of the sword state that it is a replica of a 2nd century Chinese war sword. Just curious...


Nice sword.
CARDINAL009

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#9 Kenneth

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 11:47 PM

To compare it to Han blades is difficult since the hilt on the original steel bladed examples are organic and decompose, so what they based this hilt on may be solid evidence or artistic license.
The double edged jian existed in Han but was apparently less popular, or specific to the period, than the ring pommeled dao (single edged sword). Both these swords could be around 1m metre or more long.
I would like to know the dimensions of the pictured sword. It is an attractive blade anyway.

Line drawings of Han blades are availble and these show cross sections and shape of the blade.
I'll have a look at some of my pictures of Han blades tonight..but they tend to be rusted badly when found in tombs.

The jade sword fittings that survive from Han should show what forms the regular gaurd or pommel on such Jian took.
Reconstructing one accurately is certainly possible.
One way to judge the site would be look at their other swords. If they really pay attention to detail, or if they just use the sword as a basic theme to alter, then you should be able to tell.

ximen_chuixue, that flexible tip sword thing is a terrible confusion from too many Kung Fu films.
There is nothing wrong with Kung fu movies but a bendy sword is only good for display or play. I doubt they date to anything before 50 years ago when modern Wushu came about.
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#10 Kenneth

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 01:53 AM

I have looked through a few pictures to jog my memory & the blade still seems OK, the cross section should be a broad diamond. There is a ridge along the central spine.
The Qin swords were more angular, and complex in cross section.

They could have done the crossgaurd in a more classic fashion though, such as the jade examples here.
Bronze would be cheaper and commoner as an alternative but the shape is the same. This can be seen in Tang swords and even into some more traditional later jian.
If the crossgaurd design they use is authentic or not I dont know. For the pommel to end in a flat circular head is correct. That is a pretty common form from earlier times, again a jade pommel would look good though and some examples are quite decorative.
Bronze sword fittings are shown in Tony Allens book, decorated. They sometimes can be found for sale (originals) but with such a long history the dating loose pieces is difficult.

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this example is from a Han sword just over 1m long. The picture seems to show the cord binding which often must have been rougher than the modern version, and even traces of some other organic material like fabric can be seen on the blade. (from Yang Hong)


This example was excavated near Jingdii's tomb and shows the same triangular edge facing the blade...and a mythical beast.
There were such fittings on the scabbard also..although jade would not be on anything other than a priveledged individuals weapon.
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This is a fake of mine....a modern blade segment made to look old and a very nicely carved (modern) jade fixture.
Still gives the idea of what their modern swords could add to the items to make them look like a glorious Han era blade.
They could get these fairly cheapily I would expect and it would look much better!
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#11 Liang Jieming

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 05:11 AM

Hmm... that's the first time I've seen a replica straight double blade chinese sword that's not a fantasy or taichi piece. Nice.

But I can't find this sword on the standard links but had to do a search for "chinese" to bring out the sword. I guess it's not popular and probably going out of production.

Here's a few sites with suppositely authentic chinese swords
http://www.swordsofh....com/index.html

http://shop.store.ya...onry/index.html

Edited by Liang Jieming, 26 September 2005 - 05:28 AM.


#12 Guest_Conan the destroyer_*

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 05:34 AM

For good Chinese swords, try...

http://www.zhengwutang.com/

http://www.huanuosword.com/

#13 SleepingDragon

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Posted 26 September 2005 - 07:24 PM

Thanks once again everyone, and I just checked and the website (http://www.museumreplicas.com) is working now.

To compare it to Han blades is difficult since the hilt on the original steel bladed examples are organic and decompose, so what they based this hilt on may be solid evidence or artistic license.
The double edged jian existed in Han but was apparently less popular, or specific to the period, than the ring pommeled dao (single edged sword). Both these swords could be around 1m metre or more long.
I would like to know the dimensions of the pictured sword. It is an attractive blade anyway.

Line drawings of Han blades are availble and these show cross sections and shape of the blade.
I'll have a look at some of my pictures of Han blades tonight..but they tend to be rusted badly when found in tombs.

The jade sword fittings that survive from Han should show what forms the regular gaurd or pommel on such Jian took.
Reconstructing one accurately is certainly possible.
One way to judge the site would be look at their other swords. If they really pay attention to detail, or if they just use the sword as a basic theme to alter, then you should be able to tell.

ximen_chuixue, that flexible tip sword thing is a terrible confusion from too many Kung Fu films.
There is nothing wrong with Kung fu movies but a bendy sword is only good for display or play. I doubt they date to anything before 50 years ago when modern Wushu came about.



The website says: Overall-41" Blade-32" long, 1 3/8"wide Wt.-2lbs.

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#14 Liang Jieming

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 08:08 AM

hmmm... you know what? I just might order this sword. I've been looking for a nice decent chinese sword that isn't over-the-top elaborate. Just a simple common "war" sword with none of the fancy carvings, writings, pummels etc.

This looks good. Just the kind that appeals to me. I wonder how balanced is it.

#15 CARDINAL009

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Posted 27 September 2005 - 04:48 PM

hmmm... you know what? I just might order this sword. I've been looking for a nice decent chinese sword that isn't over-the-top elaborate. Just a simple common "war" sword with none of the fancy carvings, writings, pummels etc.

This looks good. Just the kind that appeals to me. I wonder how balanced is it.


L J m,

Simple is good. Less is better. Think the sword design is fantastic

When you get it, pls tell us what is your feel f/ that implement.

@ some point of time, like to get one myself

Have a concept of how to use it.

Like 2 hear how would you use it.

Edited by CARDINAL009, 27 September 2005 - 05:10 PM.

CARDINAL009

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