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Why are southern Han considered "Hanized" natives?


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#406 YummYakitori

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 03:02 AM

Round face, yes, but high cheekbones, no. High cheekbones are a characteristic of Mongols and Tungusic peoples, not Szechuanese.


High cheekbones need not be Mongolic / Tungusic. Many Southern Han like myself have it too (depends on how high is high, I have really high cheekbones)
Буурэг дэрсэнд уурэглэсэн бужин туулай нь ч амгалан Булээн нууранд нь ганганалдсан хотон шувууд нь ч амгалан Буувэй санаа нь ивлэсэн Бусгуй сэптгэл нь ч амгалан хонхон дуутай бойтгийг нь Цэцэг унсэх нь энхрийхэн хöгöн горхины урсгалд нь Цэнгэг хараахай зуггуйхэн Хиртэшгуй ариухан дагшинд нь Монголын узэсгэлэн яруухан

#407 meis

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 07:43 AM

The problem with this issue is the categorising of the South Chinese population and their respective dialect groups. First, being that the Min dialect or Yue dialect is a misnomer (however convenient) which gives of the impression that the dialect/language is not Han in origin. Moreover, there is also a problem with people believing that the ancient Chinese spoke modern Mandarin (like how people think the ancient English sounds and was written the same way as current English) which leads them to think that other dialect can't be considered Han Chinese, therefore not Han Chinese but a tribe that was absorbed into the Han. Secondly, the notion that all the Chinese of the South must be a descendant from the union between a Han ancestor and a local ethnicity pertaining to the Bai Yue (which is very ambiguous to begin with) whom may be exactly the same genetically.
 
This issue should be resolved through culture and not judged from a genetic point of view. However, what is there to say that the Bai Yue were not related in Y-DNA chromosomes genotypes to the Han Chinese majority with O3 per male individual passed down from their common ancestor. Even moreso, who is to stop anyone from carrying on this culture outside the boundaries of genetics.Although, I find it a growing problem from "Han Chinese" that favours (especially when mixed) or has assimilated into another ethnicity to come back with a distorted predesposition to view/claim against the rest of the Han Chinese.
 
PS: It is important to know that Y-Dna and mtDna are genotypes and an individual can have either one of the types not a percentage mixture (e.g. you can have O3 or O2a but not both) and is used as an indicator of lineage either paternally for Y-Dna which are only passed down through father to son or maternally through the mtDna from the mother. It is strictly not an indicator for facial or physical features which are dictated by phenotypes. Hence, there could have been so many mixing before that would have went unknown other than the genotypes inherited by the last two parents.


Yes, you're right on "who're we to judge them and tell them what they were". If they associated their culture to 'X' region, does it bother you?

I go to Guangxi every now and then, at least once every 2 months. I have GDTV channel, etc., so I know how the Canto (people who live in Guangdong) people looks like. They'd diverse looks (like most other regions as well), and you do not know what is their sub-ethnic, not until they tell you about it. Assimilation at its best.

I can post loads of celeb/model pictures just for the sake of genotype and phenotype, and have a guessing game if you guys want...


Edited by meis, 29 May 2014 - 09:35 PM.


#408 xng

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 07:03 PM

Yes, you're right on "who're we to judge them and tell them what they were". If they associated their culture to 'X' region, does it bother you?

I go to Guangxi every now and then, at least once every 2 months. I have GDTV channel, etc., so I know how the Canto (people who live in Guangdong) people looks like. They'd diverse looks (like most other regions as well), and you do not know what is their sub-ethnicity, not until they tell you about it. Assimilation at its best.

I can post loads of celeb/model pictures just for the sake of genotype and phenotype, and have a guessing game if you guys want...

 

 

According to some research, the Bai Yue are just the Tai-Kadai, Miao-Yao people and maybe Austroasiatic.

 

Miao-Yau are related genetically to Sino-Tibetan people and they look similar. So this is just combining/assimilating back our first and second cousins.



#409 Howard Fu

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 09:28 PM

FYI, I'm beginning to be suspicious whether Chinese orgininated from Yellow river valley recently.


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#410 qaib

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:49 PM

However, what is there to say that the Bai Yue were not related in Y-DNA chromosomes genotypes to the Han Chinese majority with O3 per male individual passed down from their common ancestor.

If I'm not mistaken,it because O3 is not marker for southern China ethnic minorities. And there are also more evidence that northern people migrate to south such as during the Qin-Han expansion and during the southern and northern dynasties period.

 

I also notice that southern neolithic,such as Hemudu and Lianghzu are being associated with Austronesian and Tai-Kadai.

 

Many scholars believe the Hemudu Culture was the ultimate source of the proto-Austronesian cultures. 

 

http://bishopmuseum....07/pr07036.html

 

A high frequency of O1 was found in Liangzhu Culture sites around the mouth of the Yangtze River, linking this culture to modern Austronesian and Daic populations.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17657509

 

On the other hand,it is revealed that Yellow River main lineage is O3.

Our analysis of three ancient Miaozigou individuals revealed that they all belong to haplogroup N1(xN1a, N1c), while the main lineage of the Yellow River valley culture is O3-M122

 

http://www.biomedcen...471-2148/13/216


Edited by qaib, 11 May 2014 - 11:39 PM.





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