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#1 xng

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 10:52 AM

Hokkien words:
------------------

1. "Ga Gi" - "Ji Gei" 自己 (used in both countries).

2. "diam" - silent, "On Jing". 安靜

3. "Bai" - number of times, "chi" 次 (used in both countries)

4. "Sien" - meaning "bored", "moon" 悶

5. "ching chai" - meaning "as you wish", "kau kei" 求其 or "si daan" 是但

6. "K'au" instead of "Ko" 個 (dollar). However, "Man" 文 ( also used in both countries) Note: I suspect that K'au is actually a corrupted version of Minnan K'o (dollar).

Malay word
--------------

1. "Sinang" - twisted version of "Senang" - "Yung Yi" 容易 ( used in both countries)

2. "Sama" - mispronounciation of "Semua" for all - "Chuin Bou" 全部 (used in both countries)

3. "Pasak" - chinese version of malay word "pasar" for market.
The proper cantonese word for market is "Si Ciong" 市場, night market is "Yeh Si".

4. "Mata" - old version of malay word "Mata- mata" for police. Should be "Chaai Yan" 差人 or "Ging Chaat" 警察.

5. "Sayang" - twisted version to mean "wasteful". - "long fai".浪費 or 'saai' (used in both countries)

6. "Panai" - chinese version of "Pandai" - should be "Lek" (Person) (used in both countries)

7. "Tolong" - Help - "Bong" 幫 (used in both countries)

8. "Salah" - meaning 'offense' - 'faan faat'. 犯法

9. "Lui" - comes from 'Duit' - "Chin" 錢 (also used in both countries)


Cantonese origin (different vocabulary)
----------------

1. "Oi" 愛 instead of "Yiu" 要

2. "Caam" 摻 instead of K'au 溝

3. "Siu Yin" 燒煙 instead of "Sik Yin" 食煙

4. "Liu" 嫽 (play with) instead of "Waan" 玩 (used in both countries)

5. "Hei" corrupted version of "Kui" 佢

6. "Kok" 角 instead of "Hou" 毫 (cents)

7. "Wong Lai" 黃梨 instead of "Po Lo" 菠蘿

8. "Lei" 來 instead of "Lai" 來 (Both are different colloquial pronounciation of the same character)

9. "Liu" 寮 as in Mata Liu (Police hut/shack) instead of 'Caai Kuun' 差館 (used in both countries)

Edited by xng, 02 July 2010 - 01:55 PM.


#2 qrasy

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 02:33 PM

I see some incorrect meanings... (Malaysian Cantonese did not interpret these Malay words correctly??)
- "sayang" in this context would be "可惜".
- "mata-mata" means "spy".
- "salah" means "wrong"

Some doubts: 警察: shouldn't it b "Ging chaat"?
Senang: "like"(喜歎), but can also be "happy" (開心)
Is "Bai" 倍? How could "次" be interchanged with it??

Whether "diam" is from Hokkien or Malay should be looked from the pronunciation. "-iam" is not a natural ending for Cantonese, "diim" would fit, or "di yam" like Malay.

Edited by qrasy, 16 January 2006 - 02:40 PM.

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#3 xng

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 11:00 AM

I see some incorrect meanings... (Malaysian Cantonese did not interpret these Malay words correctly??)
- "sayang" in this context would be "可惜".
- "mata-mata" means "spy".
- "salah" means "wrong"

Some doubts: 警察: shouldn't it b "Ging chaat"?
Senang: "like"(喜歎), but can also be "happy" (開心)
Is "Bai" 倍? How could "次" be interchanged with it??

Whether "diam" is from Hokkien or Malay should be looked from the pronunciation. "-iam" is not a natural ending for Cantonese, "diim" would fit, or "di yam" like Malay.


The older chinese in malaysia/singapore twisted some original malay words meaning, therefore the meaning is not exactly the same but close to the malay word.

I don't know the character for 'bai' , it is a hokkien word for 'number of times' for those who knows hokkien.

'diam' is from hokkien because I saw a taiwanese hokkien show which pronounced it as diam. It could be the malays borrowed this. Any taiwanese here who can confirm ?

Some mistakes in cantonese pinyin edited.

#4 urofpersia

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 11:11 AM

Besides borrowed phrases why not look at how Cantonese itself is different among Cantonese speaking people in Malaysia compared to others.

When saying an less formal 'Thank you' just about all Malaysian Cantonese speakers use 'Duo Je' 多谢 while Hongkongers and others I have heard used 'Mng Gkuo' Sorry for the terrible romanisation I dont know how to romanise in Cantonese.

Any other examples?
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#5 xng

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 11:30 AM

Besides borrowed phrases why not look at how Cantonese itself is different among Cantonese speaking people in Malaysia compared to others.

When saying an less formal 'Thank you' just about all Malaysian Cantonese speakers use 'Duo Je' 多谢 while Hongkongers and others I have heard used 'Mng Gkuo' Sorry for the terrible romanisation I dont know how to romanise in Cantonese.

Any other examples?


'Do je' and 'ng goi' are synonyms. I have heard of 'do je' spoken in hong kong too. I have also heard of 'ng goi' in malaysia. So this is a bad example.

Good examples are:

malaysian cantonese use 'liu' which I believe is this character 撩, Whereas hong kong people use 'waan' 玩 to mean 'play'.

Smoking cigarette is 燒 煙 for malaysian cantonese, while it is 食 煙 for hong kongers.

#6 qrasy

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:03 PM

Actually I have doubts about "Yung Yi". Does it refer to "to like sth"?

I don't know the character for 'bai' , it is a hokkien word for 'number of times' for those who knows hokkien.

The tone could help. 倍 belongs to Yang shang (陽上), pronounced High Falling in Hokkienese.

'diam' is from hokkien because I saw a taiwanese hokkien show which pronounced it as diam. It could be the malays borrowed this. Any taiwanese here who can confirm ?

Can be loaning each other, but can also be coincidence. But the shape of the word will help. Is the Malaysian Cantonese "diam" pronounced in one syllable (close to 'dyam') or two syllables (closer to 'di-yam')?
And is the Hokkien "diam" [d] or [t]? If it's Hokkien [t] then it's not Malay borrow from Hokkien.
(the value inside the [] follows Latin rather than Pinyin)
<actually, [d] in Hokkien only exists in several variants like in Pekanbaru, which usually found [l] or [dz] in other areas>

'Do je' and 'ng goi' are synonyms. I have heard of 'do je' spoken in hong kong too. I have also heard of 'ng goi' in malaysia. So this is a bad example.

Not quite synonyme, "唔該" has wider sense, like "excuse me" etc..
"多謝" is used in Hong Kong, but if that is like "thanks very much" (e.g. like given something), shopkeepers often say this. Do a little favor is never replied with "多謝". But actually I never sense if "唔該" has the sense of "sorry (of a fault)".

Edited by qrasy, 17 January 2006 - 01:09 PM.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the liedeliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK

One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. - Neil deGrasse Tyson

#7 urofpersia

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:12 PM

'Do je' and 'ng goi' are synonyms. I have heard of 'do je' spoken in hong kong too. I have also heard of 'ng goi' in malaysia. So this is a bad example.


My point wasn't that either term was exclusive but what is commonly used for a less formal thank you. Do Je in Hong Kong tend to be more formal or used when emphasizng how grateful you really are.

For example, most Hong Kongers wont use Do Je say in a restaurant or store but Ng Goi. The reverse is however not true in Malaysia where Do Je is used a lot more than Ng Goi.
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#8 qrasy

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:32 PM

My point wasn't that either term was exclusive but what is commonly used for a less formal thank you. Do Je in Hong Kong tend to be more formal or used when emphasizng how grateful you really are.

For example, most Hong Kongers wont use Do Je say in a restaurant or store but Ng Goi. The reverse is however not true in Malaysia where Do Je is used a lot more than Ng Goi.

That "Ng Goi" to me is a weird term. It's observed in Indonesia: Cantonese distinguished 2 kinds of "thank". "唔該" certainly is different from "多謝", a distinction not many non-Cantonese can think of. Before I came to Hong Kong my father told me some things in Cantonese, including this distinction.
"唔該" here usually just relates to "a little favor" then of course some could think it's for "informal use".
{actually seems that "唔該" tend more to "excuse me" than "thanks", and it's also used in making some requests, where there is also "唔好意思". Again, seems a "synomym" while the sense is different}
[edit: another use of "唔好意思", If I recall correctly, can mean "sorry"]

Edited by qrasy, 17 January 2006 - 02:59 PM.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the liedeliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK

One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. - Neil deGrasse Tyson

#9 xng

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 03:39 AM

倍 belongs to Yang shang (陽上), pronounced High Falling in Hokkienese.


The hokkien sound for 倍 is 'buei' not 'bai' and the tone depends on which subdialect of hokkien. Different subdialects give different tones. So this is not the right character.

My point wasn't that either term was exclusive but what is commonly used for a less formal thank you. Do Je in Hong Kong tend to be more formal or used when emphasizng how grateful you really are.

For example, most Hong Kongers wont use Do Je say in a restaurant or store but Ng Goi. The reverse is however not true in Malaysia where Do Je is used a lot more than Ng Goi.


Maybe because malaysian/singaporeans are influenced by mandarin who doesn't distinguish the subtle differences/situation and simply say 'do je' as 'thanks'.

Edited by xng, 18 January 2006 - 03:37 AM.


#10 qrasy

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 03:47 AM

The hokkien sound for 倍 is 'buei' not 'bai' and the tone depends on which subdialect of hokkien. Different subdialects give different tones. So this is not the right character.

"Buei" or not should also depend on which subdialect. The most common Min Nan dialect found is with Yang Shang and Yin Shang merged together and both sounds falling (different with Chaozhou). But the tones in Min Nan should change in "flowing speech".
The meaning does not match, so most likely wrong.
Perhaps 遍 is pai(n), compare with 免 is mai(n).
EDIT: like Mandarin 遍 of "我去了一遍".
note: the (n) here means nasalization, a weak feature that many language speakers either convert into an '-ng' or cannot notice. The example of this nasalization is found in French.

Maybe because malaysian/singaporeans are influenced by mandarin who doesn't distinguish the subtle differences/situation and simply say 'do je' as 'thanks'.

This is exactly what I could think of the phenomenon. The thing that my father told me: Mandarin speakers usually just 多谢 in any situation.
But anyway, does any Mandarin speaker not distinguish 多谢 and 谢谢?

Edited by qrasy, 18 January 2006 - 03:56 AM.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the liedeliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK

One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. - Neil deGrasse Tyson

#11 urofpersia

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 04:02 AM

This is exactly what I could think of the phenomenon. The thing that my father told me: Mandarin speakers usually just 多谢 in any situation.
But anyway, does any Mandarin speaker not distinguish 多谢 and 谢谢?


The influence may be more from dialects like Hakka where we say 多谢 rather than 谢谢。

Singapore Cantonese also tend to use Ng Koi much like Hong Kongers rather than Malaysia. I am aware of this point because it was brought up in conversation between 2 ex-colleagues of mine, one from Singapore the other Malaysian, both Cantonese.
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#12 tongyan

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 01:10 PM

That "Ng Goi" to me is a weird term. It's observed in Indonesia: Cantonese distinguished 2 kinds of "thank". "唔該" certainly is different from "多謝", a distinction not many non-Cantonese can think of. Before I came to Hong Kong my father told me some things in Cantonese, including this distinction.
"唔該" here usually just relates to "a little favor" then of course some could think it's for "informal use".
{actually seems that "唔該" tend more to "excuse me" than "thanks", and it's also used in making some requests, where there is also "唔好意思". Again, seems a "synomym" while the sense is different}
[edit: another use of "唔好意思", If I recall correctly, can mean "sorry"]


唔該 can be used to both make a request and as thanks for a favor completed.
it can be used as 'excuse me' when you want to ask a question or if somebody is blocking your way.
it can be used as a term of gratitude if someone has performed a favor for you, usually not a huge one.
唔好意思 can be used to express embarassment in a situation, oftentimes manifested during a request for information or for a favor. it can mean 'sorry' for the same reason, expressing embarassment for committing a wrong to someone else.
多謝 is usually thanks for a gift or a huge favor done on your behalf, (a favor so big it's equivalent to a gift). if i go out and find your long lost twin, i think that kind of favor warrants a 多謝


This is exactly what I could think of the phenomenon. The thing that my father told me: Mandarin speakers usually just 多谢 in any situation.
But anyway, does any Mandarin speaker not distinguish 多谢 and 谢谢?


i have never heard any mandarin speaker say 多謝 in a contemporary, conversational context.
多謝 i hear in tv serials depicted in classical times. it appears to be more formal and a more serious way of saying thanks - like a thanks for someone saving your family or something. this may also have been the way thanks was communicated in ancient times.

謝謝 seems to be a more casual and standard way of expressing gratitude. It also seems more modern to me, which is why cantonese never uses it.

#13 qrasy

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 02:12 PM

唔該 can be used to both make a request and as thanks for a favor completed.
it can be used as 'excuse me' when you want to ask a question or if somebody is blocking your way.
it can be used as a term of gratitude if someone has performed a favor for you, usually not a huge one.

So I said that it's used for "do me a little favor". After the request is completed, often a 'sai' added to the end. (... same with 多謝)

唔好意思 can be used to express embarassment in a situation, oftentimes manifested during a request for information or for a favor. it can mean 'sorry' for the same reason, expressing embarassment for committing a wrong to someone else.

Also "sorry" in "sorry, don't...".

多謝 is usually thanks for a gift or a huge favor done on your behalf, (a favor so big it's equivalent to a gift). if i go out and find your long lost twin, i think that kind of favor warrants a 多謝

Is giving money for buying something a very large favor? Or a gift? :P

i have never heard any mandarin speaker say 多謝 in a contemporary, conversational context.
多謝 i hear in tv serials depicted in classical times. it appears to be more formal and a more serious way of saying thanks - like a thanks for someone saving your family or something. this may also have been the way thanks was communicated in ancient times.

Yes. 多謝 looks very serious even in Mandarin.

謝謝 seems to be a more casual and standard way of expressing gratitude. It also seems more modern to me, which is why cantonese never uses it.


As far as I know only Mandarin and Wu use 謝謝.
Minnan Kamsia 感謝
some loans:
Korean Kamsahamnida 感謝함니다
Vietnamese cảm ơn 感恩
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the liedeliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - JFK

One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas. - Neil deGrasse Tyson

#14 tongyan

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 03:46 PM

Is giving money for buying something a very large favor? Or a gift? :P


I think that the fact that someone is giving you money, implies that it is a gift.

#15 calibre2001

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 08:17 PM

Malaysian cantonese -> http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

as spoken by a member of the younger generation. Her standard of cantonese is pretty decent thanks to local tv channels airing plenty of undubbed HK serial dramas. She's probably chinese educated and from cantonese-speaking areas like Kuala Lumpur, Ipoh.

Notice it follows written chinese with words like 然後 and such?




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